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  • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
    Because you can't know anything, other than subjectively. It all begins with you, subjectively, before you can experience anything. Nothing can exists for you, as a human being, apart from your personal experience. That applies to everyone, not just you. Truth is meaningless, without consciousness. Even science has proven that, through various experiments, in the area of quantum mechanics. Consciousness is the prerequisite for reality or for truth. The prime intelligence or sub-consciousness, is the root and substrate of truth. We call that prime intelligence or root mind, "GOD". The non-causal, non-contingent mind or consciousness.

    My point, the one you are missing or simply don't want to recognize, is that the only absolutely certain reality, is within your own experience. It's you. You don't know if I exist, that's on faith. I might very well exist, and everything else that you perceive around you as tangible. As a human being, you have to believe certain things in order to function in this life, in this world. Nonetheless, everything, every-thing, all things are faith. Belief, apart from your own point of consciousness, your personal point of absolute certainty.

    If you say you don't exist, when you do, then you're absolutely wrong, aren't you? Takes no faith, it's not a belief. You know that you exist, if you exist. Right? Do you know I exist, with the same degree of certainty? No. Even your keyboard, might not actually exist, in the way you perceive it, if at all. It might all be an illusion. Perhaps you're the only conscious one? Perhaps I'm a figment of your imagination. How would you prove otherwise? It doesn't matter. To believe that, would be unreasonable and impractical. You would be an idiot if you believed that and I doubt you're an idiot.

    All begins and ends, with consciousness. Your consciousness for you, is the absolute point of certainty and that's where you're going to have an encounter with God. That's where all of the prophets, received their revelation and communed with God, before there was a bible. It's not a book, that will save you, it's a person. That's the point I'm making.
    Non responsive...dodge ball....


    Is "The truth cannot be known-all of it is subjective" a true statement?
    Saint John W

    Comment


    • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
      Because you can't know anything, other than subjectively.
      Is the above objective truth?

      How did you come to know that?
      Saint John W

      Comment


      • Originally posted by john w View Post
        So, is your definition of a theist, objectively true?
        My definition, the one I associate with the word "theist", is the definition generally accepted by others. Theist denotes someone who beliefs in a deity or God. I'm asking you if you believe in a God. The word "theism" or "theist" is generally understood to denote a set criteria of belief, and I'm asking you if you fit that criteria of belief. Simple yes or no answer will do.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
          My definition, the one I associate with the word "theist", is the definition generally accepted by others. Theist denotes someone who beliefs in a deity or God. I'm asking you if you believe in a God. The word "theism" or "theist" is generally understood to denote a set criteria of belief, and I'm asking you if you fit that criteria of belief. Simple yes or no answer will do.
          What must we do to be saved?
          "There is one thing worse than going to Hell. That would be going to Hell and having it be a surprise."
          Terence Mc Lean

          [most will be very surprised]


          Everyone who has not believed the Gospel of grace is not saved, no matter what else they believe or do.
          By that measure, how many professing Christians are on their way to the Lake of Fire?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by john w View Post
            Non responsive...dodge ball....


            Is "The truth cannot be known-all of it is subjective" a true statement?
            I never said the truth can't be known. I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement and the fact that you know anything attests to that simple, obvious fact. You need to exist, in order to know anything. Don't you exist?

            If I say, " John W exists", am I correct? I have faith, I believe it's reasonable to assume that John W exists. It's my subjective belief. Only you know "objectively" if you actually exist. All objective truth for you, what you recognize as truth, requires you. Not me, not the guy or gal over there, but you. That's where God will meet you, at your absolute point of certainty. That's the point I'm making.

            You will commune with God, have a relationship with God, God can impart knowledge, revelation to you, and that is true, regardless of how I might feel about you or whether I doubt you have this relationship with God. It doesn't matter what I believe about it. You either have it or you don't. Perhaps God will grant me the ability to recognize that what you are saying is true. You are actually speaking the truth. That's my point.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
              My definition, the one I associate with the word "theist", is the definition generally accepted by others. Theist denotes someone who beliefs in a deity or God. I'm asking you if you believe in a God. The word "theism" or "theist" is generally understood to denote a set criteria of belief, and I'm asking you if you fit that criteria of belief. Simple yes or no answer will do.
              So, is your definition, "the one generally accepted by others," objectively true, or is it subjective/relative?


              Curly just cannot see the self defeating "argument" he is presenting, and the TOL audience is laughing, as he the ditch he is digging, gets deeper.
              Saint John W

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                I never said the truth can't be known. I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement... .
                So, in other words, the above is a true statement, but not really, as truth is not objective-it is subjective.

                If all truth is relative/subjective, then the statement itself "I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement... "would be relative/subjective, and not objectively true.


                Curly just cannot see that he hasa self defeating/refuting argument, one that commits suicide. A 6 year old can see it.
                Saint John W

                Comment


                • Originally posted by musterion View Post
                  What must we do to be saved?
                  The prerequisite for anyone to be saved from destruction, is Christ's work on the cross and His resurrection. It doesn't matter how good you are, if Christ hadn't died on that cross and risen from the dead, we would all be doomed to destruction, due to the original sin. The first Adam's fall, effected everyone, whether good or not, saint and sinner, all died and perished, without recourse of a resurrection.

                  Now we're living in the age after Christ's resurrection, hence all people on earth, every human being, will be risen from the dead and judged. Saint and sinner, unlike before, now have an opportunity to inherit eternal life, in God's Kingdom. So, you and I will be judged according to our deeds. That's the standard established by Christ, the judge appointed by the heavenly Father. The infinite, eternal, Creator, YHWH, has appointed His Son, as King, Judge and High priest. Our deeds, the way we live, will determine our eternal destiny.

                  If you are of the elect, born again/born from above, you will reign with Christ over the nations. You're a member of His royal family. You won't suffer the torment of the first death. You won't go to the abyss as most of humanity does. You will enter God's Kingdom, at the point of death, into a realm where you will wait for the resurrection. It's a pleasant rest and dream like environment. You won't be tormented by demons in the abyss. If you're not a Christian, born again, regenerated, then you will go to the dark abyss, where you might be summoned by demons, tormented. You will mostly sleep and also experience a nightmarish condition, when you are semi-awake.

                  The demons and the living (human beings when alive, like necromancers, magicians), have the power to summon the human dead. The witch of Endor, summoned Samuel from his sleep or rest. He was a righteous prophet, but he was in the abyss. He was protected somewhat, but still vulnerable to being summoned. This ends with Christ. If you're in Christ, you don't have to worry about that.

                  Everyone who is in the abyss, will not be thrown into the lake of fire. Only the wicked, those who were extremely evil, here on earth when alive, and those who might not have been so evil, but once summoned in the abyss they chose to serve the demonic forces, authorities that summoned them. To remain conscious, they do the bidding of the devil and his minions, becoming a demonic minion themselves.

                  Those who get to the resurrection, without serving the devil, who died in this life, as relatively good people, and didn't serve the devil when in the abyss, will become part of the nations that are shepherd by the elect. The bride of Christ. Those who are part of Christ's royal family, His bride, will become angels. Like the angels/essentially. True Christians will become like Jesus and His angels. We will serve as ministering spirits. No flesh and blood will inherit the Kingdom Of God (We get resurrection bodies, unlike the nations). The nations will have access to the tree of life (what exactly that entrails is a mystery) and humanity will spread throughout the universe, as originally intended by YHWH.

                  And like I just mentioned, the true Christians or elect, the Bride of Christ, will be the angels of that Aeon/Age. Eventually, many of the people of the nations will eventually inherit the same nature as the elect, becoming angels themselves. That is the eternal destiny of the living ones. YHWH is the Living God of the Living, not the dead. It's an eternal journey, form holiness to holiness, glory to glory, power to power, ascending, closer and closer to the Heavenly Father's Infinite Light.
                  Last edited by RealityJerk; December 6th, 2017, 04:18 PM. Reason: Typos, Clarification

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by john w View Post
                    You argue, not me:No one has the truth-it is all subjective/relative.


                    If no one has the truth, then the statement "no one has the truth" is false=a truthstatement!Then how do you know that is true?

                    =Self defeating argument. Curly the idiot just cannot see it. A 6 year old can.
                    I never said all truth is relative. That's your straw man.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                      If I say, " John W exists", am I correct? I have faith, I believe it's reasonable to assume that John W exists.
                      Wrong biblical definition of "faith," and subjectivity/objectivity. All biblical faith, and most "secular" faith, is based upon facts/evidence. You confuse objectivity, with the concept of "absolute knowledge," that humans do not have. I do not have to know, "absolutely," all the scientific reasons as to why an airplane can fly, i.e., lift..................But, based upon the facts, evidence, i.e., I see it take off, witnesses tell me(eyewitness testimony)...................that airplanes fly-objective truth, not subjective truth.

                      Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                      It's my subjective belief. .
                      You are confused about the concept of "subjectivity/relativeness," and belief/faith.

                      You assert that truth is relative/subjective.

                      You are one confused Curly.
                      Saint John W

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by john w View Post
                        So, is your definition, "the one generally accepted by others," objectively true, or is it subjective/relative?


                        Curly just cannot see the self defeating "argument" he is presenting, and the TOL audience is laughing, as he the ditch he is digging, gets deeper.
                        Subjective doesn't equate "relative".

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                          I never said all truth is relative. That's your straw man.
                          Vs.

                          Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                          Exactly, it's all subjectivity. Everything is subjective, the only reality that isn't is you. Everything else outside of you is an assumption and on faith….. The only objective truth is your own experience and consciousness, everything outside of you is subject to faith and belief… All truth is perceived and known subjectively, not objectively…… Because you can't know anything, other than subjectively……. I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement…
                          The idiot confuses knowing objective truth, vs. the fact whether objective truth exists.


                          You're new name is Lamont.


                          Watch:
                          Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                          All truth is perceived and known subjectively, not objectively..
                          Is the above statement subjective/relative, or objective?


                          If all truth is relative/subjective,then the statement itself,"all truth is relative/subjective," would be relative/subjective, and not objectively true. In other words, you are arguing that it is objectively true that all truth is relative.

                          I ask: "Is that a relative truth?"

                          Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                          I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement.

                          Is your assertion that "the truth can only be known subjectively" an objectively true statement?

                          Kaboom!


                          A 6 year old can see your argument that commits suicide.
                          Saint John W

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by john w View Post
                            Wrong biblical definition of "faith," and subjectivity/objectivity. All biblical faith, and most "secular" faith, is based upon facts/evidence.
                            Really? Your "biblical faith" is based on facts and evidence? Prove it.

                            Originally posted by john w View Post

                            You confuse objectivity, with the concept of "absolute knowledge," that humans do not have.
                            The only absolute knowledge or fact, that we know absolutely, is that we exist. That's a subjective truth, but truth nonetheless. It's only relative to whether you exist or not. Subjective reality, that which can not be proven absolutely, outside of yourself, is on faith. Belief.


                            Originally posted by john w View Post
                            I do not have to know, "absolutely," all the scientific reasons as to why an airplane can fly, i.e., lift..................But, based upon the facts, evidence, i.e., I see it take off, witnesses tell me(eyewitness testimony)...................that airplanes fly-objective truth, not subjective truth.
                            It's objectively true, relative to there being a sentient, conscious being to allow it to be "true". Consciousness is the substrate or root of reality, that conceived and sustains the laws of physics, allowing that plane to fly. So a plane flies thanks to a subjective, sentient reality, not an "objective" one. All is sentience and relative, to God allowing the conditions for that perceivable, objective reality to exist. I never proposed that objective reality, truth, doesn't exist outside of human awareness or consciousness.

                            The most basic truth is your own existence. That's the absolute point of certainty within your experience, and that's where God will commune with you, provided you're actually in a position to receive from Him.

                            Your belief in the bible as God's infallible, inerrant word, is speculative at best. You need to receive a divine deposit of knowledge for the bible to be profitable to you for instruction or it will kill you. The bible will literally kill you. It's a two edged sword. Without the Holy Spirit, you will only increase your wickedness, if you study the bible.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                              Subjective doesn't equate "relative".
                              Lamont just has no clue as to the difference between knowing objective truth, confusing faith with absolute knowledge...........................and clueless as to the objective definition of faith, and the term "subject," mixing belief, with the existence of objective truth.

                              I'm done. A 6 year old can see his self refuting "argument."
                              Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                              Exactly, it's all subjectivity. Everything is subjective, the only reality that isn't is you. Everything else outside of you is an assumption and on faith….. The only objective truth is your own experience and consciousness, everything outside of you is subject to faith and belief… All truth is perceived and known subjectively, not objectively…… Because you can't know anything, other than subjectively……. I said the truth can only be known subjectively. That is a true statement…]

                              Translation: Everything he posts, is his subjective truth, cannot be known objectively.
                              Saint John W

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by RealityJerk View Post
                                Really? Your "biblical faith" is based on facts and evidence? Prove it.


                                Prove you exist.

                                Prove George Washington existed.
                                Saint John W

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