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Why is it believed that all men are condemned from birth?

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  • #16
    http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/i...2-11-b-pdf.pdf

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Word based mystic View Post
      Evolution?
      "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
        Evolution?
        pic of Jesus with cup in hand

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Word based mystic View Post
          pic of Jesus with cup in hand
          Ah, oh, now I see. I . . .
          "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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          • #20
            throwing a few distraction pics to lighten the mood from all the many weighty and lofty discussions.

            lol

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Word based mystic View Post
              throwing a few distraction pics to lighten the mood from all the many weighty and lofty discussions.

              lol
              I would like to read your views on this OP.
              "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

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              • #22
                condemned = lacking
                condemned = insufficient even perishable
                destined or judged for eternal change or destruction

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                • #23
                  Those my Christ died for are born into this world as sinners, but not condemned! They are born Justified before God from all their sins based on the blood of Christ Rom 5:9 !
                  "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                  preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                  called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                  a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                  Charles Spurgeon !

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                  • #24
                    As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one;
                    There is none who understands;
                    There is none who seeks after God.
                    They have all turned aside;
                    They have together become unprofitable;
                    There is none who does good, no, not one.”

                    -Romans 3:10-12

                    Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
                    -Romans 5:12

                    Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
                    -1 Corinthians 15:50

                    We are not born righteous, but rather unrighteous. This is why we are condemned from birth.
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      [QUOTE=Lighthouse;4292949]As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one;
                      There is none who understands;
                      There is none who seeks after God.
                      They have all turned aside;
                      They have together become unprofitable;
                      There is none who does good, no, not one.”

                      -Romans 3:10-12

                      Only with regards to the context of what Paul was saying is that a true statement otherwise, having it apply on a unversal scale without qualitying it is grossly inaccurate.

                      We are not born righteous, but rather unrighteous. This is why we are condemned from birth.
                      We were born innocent/blameless. That is a fact easily supported by scripture.
                      "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                        As it is written:“There is none righteous, no, not one;
                        There is none who understands;
                        There is none who seeks after God.
                        They have all turned aside;
                        They have together become unprofitable;
                        There is none who does good, no, not one.”

                        -Romans 3:10-12

                        Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
                        -Romans 5:12

                        Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
                        -1 Corinthians 15:50

                        We are not born righteous, but rather unrighteous. This is why we are condemned from birth.
                        Those my Christ died for are born righteous, they were made righteous by His obedience Rom 5:19! I don't know nothing about the Christ you believe in!
                        "... I have my own private opinion that there is no such a thing as
                        preaching Christ and him crucified, unless you preach what now-a-days is
                        called Calvinism. I have my own ideas, and those I always state boldly. It is
                        a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

                        Charles Spurgeon !

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                          Only with regards to the context of what Paul was saying is that a true statement otherwise, having it apply on a unversal scale without qualitying it is grossly inaccurate.
                          Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
                          And in sin my mother conceived me.
                          -Psalm 51:5

                          “What is man, that he could be pure?
                          And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?”
                          -Job 15:14

                          We were born innocent/blameless. That is a fact easily supported by scripture.
                          Then support it.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            First, before I continue, I would like to apologize for completely skipping the post I am about to comment on.


                            Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post

                            And that day came and Adam died. Where is the implication of a decree in that?
                            And the day came and Adam died is my point. There is not one "warning" in the OT that God declares that doesn't come to pass. It is not strange to me that what the Eternal One says will surely come to pass.



                            Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                            But God [fore]knew and pre-planned for Adam's failure. .
                            Can you provide a scripture that says God preplanned for anything? I guarantee you will not find a single one that shows that God preplanned anything. God does not preplan for the possibility of sin. It is a mistake to limit God with foreknowledge by disassociating
                            from the attribute of omniscience. God did not preplan anything because the very concept of preplanning goes against the nature of God's omniscience.

                            Originally posted by Cross Reference View Post
                            1. It is a mistake to to believe God's warnings are decrees. It muddies the water of what He purposes for our understanding when doing so. In yellow is not a decree bur a warning that carries with it a penalty for doing so. It is not something for which God purposes but of His Holiness, can only abide by.
                            Whether it is a just a warning or a decree is of little l aittle importance. All that the Lord speaks will come to pass. the fact still remains
                            Christ is the Gospel; Christ is our righteousness; Christ is our hope!!! No Jesus; no righteousness. No Jesus; no hope!

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                            • #29
                              [QUOTE=Ardima;4293181]
                              First, before I continue, I would like to apologize for completely skipping the post I am about to comment on.
                              And the day came and Adam died is my point. There is not one "warning" in the OT that God declares that doesn't come to pass. It is not strange to me that what the Eternal One says will surely come to pass.
                              But your 'theme' in all this is that man doesn't have choice. Am I wrong in that?

                              Can you provide a scripture that says God preplanned for anything? I guarantee you will not find a single one that shows that God preplanned anything. God does not preplan for the possibility of sin. It is a mistake to limit God with foreknowledge by disassociating
                              from the attribute of omniscience. God did not preplan anything because the very concept of preplanning goes against the nature of God's omniscience.
                              What is God then given to do to bring about His intentions, just little let everything 'fall'/fail with no way to "rescue" it? Does that make sense to you? Why not first consider what God had in mind [SET IN HIMSELF] that, of necessity had to undergo a time of proving before He could claim success in the eyes of those watching? We must keep in mind Lucifers failure and how it came about God uses it to prove His reasoning for conducting His business on man's level of understanding without man initially realizing it. Read the scriptures with that in mind and see what you come up with __ "first the natural and then the spiritual" 1Cor. 15:46.

                              Whether it is a just a warning or a decree is of little l aittle importance. All that the Lord speaks will come to pass. the fact still remains
                              I well understand that.

                              This question should cut to the chase: Is a persons salvation by decree?
                              "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                [QUOTE=Lighthouse;4293113]
                                Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
                                And in sin my mother conceived me.
                                -Psalm 51:5
                                David is saying he was "conceived in sin" __ not to be confused with being born.

                                “What is man, that he could be pure?
                                And he who is born of a woman, that he could be righteous?”
                                -Job 15:14
                                "Could" or should, be righteous?

                                Then support it.
                                Support what? A man is born innocent/blameless? Why the need to suppport that truth when the Bible will given you understanding if you want it?

                                Ask yourself what consitutes unrighteousness except to the thing that is unrighteous. Can baby do that? Does he have understanding of the law?
                                "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15 (KJV)

                                Comment

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