These are your answers? So, where in here is there a refutation? A refutation is to prove wrong by making an argument against what I have presented and substantiating it with evidence. You have not addressed the text with an alternate explanation that demonstrates my position to be inconsistent and in error.
And now you are no longer a slave to sin.
And?
:doh:
First off it's "herring."
Secondly I said nothing of your usage.
I prefer the NKJV, which I already read. The other day when I responded to you.
My issue was that the phrasing in your post made no grammatical sense.
I know this.
I also know: "But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." [Romans 8:9]
Yes, I know this as well. So how does one get the Spirit?
I didn't dismiss anything. You need to pay attention.
All you did was beg the question.
None of this states what you claim it does. You are assuming the conclusion.
As always; circular logic.
I don't need to counter your arguments because they are arguments from silence. You can't even defend them with the text you use; because the text does not make the statements you claim they do.
Furthermore, I see that you completely glossed over this (see below) in your response (well, you just made a remark about the grammar of Jeremiah 13:23, but nonetheless no refutation was provided to the position I presented with the Scriptures):
Your assumption is faulty. The Scripture does not say that man can if his will is convinced to follow God's law; rather, man apart from the Spirit cannot submit. Carnal man lives by the flesh.
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil" (Jeremiah 13:23).
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8).
One is only persuaded to choose when God has given him a new heart, spiritual regeneration of his heart of stone, to obey and submit to his law. Only then can he see clearly which path leads to righteousness (the kingdom) and which path leads to damnation.
Jesus explains how one can see the kingdom:
"Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:3-8).
Where in this passage do you see one who is born of the flesh having his carnal mind persuaded to see the kingdom, so he can choose to enter it? You don't. He cannot see it. That's the point! That's why Nicodemus was baffled; he was theteacher of Israel and you would think of all people he would have been able to see it.
He had to be born again, which is up to the will of the Spirit, not man.
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
However, its important that you understand that it is not the Spirit forcing man to choose (I see that is a misconception among OTs). Man has already made his choice (Romans 1), so God gave him over to the consequence of their folly. But when the Spirit comes and penetrates man's heart, through the preaching of the gospel, it gives him a new heart of flesh, which freely sees, desires, and chooses Christ, turning from sin, and freely submitting to God's law.
No forcing or coercion of man's will in any way; rather, God extends his grace by doing a supernatural work in the dead heart, which only desires to serve idols, to serve the living God.
That is amazing grace.
Show me where I am making an argument from silence? Where have I assumed the conclusion in my argument?
Might I add this to support my argument:
Romans 3:10-11, “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands;
no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good, not even one.”
Paul says "no one seeks for God . . . no one does good." So, how then does someone get God the Spirit to dwell inside of him, when he does seek him?
Jesus says that Spirit blows where it wants to (John 3:3-8). It makes sense because we, with our hearts of stone, don't seek the Spirit. Paul further makes it clear that "no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except in the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3).
It seems clear that the Spirit has to change one's heart first, who Jesus says makes one born again by his own will (John 3:5-8), so that one can proclaim Jesus as Lord.
That is how one goes from . . .
Romans 8:6-8: "For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. "
to . . .
Romans 8:9: "
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you."
So, the
"you" Paul is speaking of are the Christians at the church in Rome who
were in the flesh, but they now have the
Spirit dwelling inside of them.
Paul gives more detail to the Ephesians, speaking of their lives prior to God's grace:
"And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind" (Eph. 2:1-3).
They were 'following the course of the world' and 'the prince of power of the air,' and, here is the important part showing our total life of depravity, '
among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind."
That is how we once walked. No where do we see Paul say that man is seeking God or even desires to do so. He makes it clear,
our nature was that of wrath. So, I refer to the Jeremiah 13:23 passage again, with a slight revision: "Can you, who are by nature a child of wrath, a doer of evil, change your own nature to do good?"
No, you cannot. And that is the point of Jeremiah's passage; an Ethiopian cannot change his skin color, and a leopard cannot change his spots.
