Theology Club: 'In Christ' Before Me

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
no.


Jesus and the fig tree . the fig tree was cut down

Luk 13:7 And he said to the vinedresser, 'Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?'
Luk 13:8 And he answered him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure.
Luk 13:9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.

So being in the Olive Tree is not the same as being "in Christ"?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
JS, are you unaware of God's two-fold plans for the heavens and the earth?

When the Lord Jesus returns to reign in His earthly kingdom will those in the Body of Christ not be with Him since they are promised that from the point of time beginning at the rapture they will for ever be with Him?:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.1:17).​
 

Right Divider

Body part
When the Lord Jesus returns to reign in His earthly kingdom will those in the Body of Christ not be with Him since they are promised that from the point of time beginning at the rapture they will for ever be with Him?:
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.1:17).​
The body of Christ will not be present on earth from the time of the catching away through the time of Jacob's trouble.

Eventually all things be be brought together in Christ.That is in the future.

Eph 1:10 KJV That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

We are NOT in the dispensation of the fullness of times.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You have issues with Paul's words at 1 Thessalonians 4:17 and that explains why you evade answering my simple question.
No, I have no problem with any scripture.

Your Bible blending destroys the distinction between God's plans that will come together in the dispensation of the fullness of times and not sooner.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Your Bible blending destroys the distinction between God's plans that will come together in the dispensation of the fullness of times and not sooner.

Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus to reign on the earth sometime after the rapture?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus to reign on the earth sometime after the rapture?
I believe the Bible when it says that we will always be with the Lord. I do not know exactly what that means with respect to the earthly kingdom.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I believe the Bible when it says that we will always be with the Lord. I do not know exactly what that means with respect to the earthly kingdom.

Will you admit that the Lord Jesus' words about being for ever with Him could mean that those caught up will return to the earth with Him when He will reign from the throne of David?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Could be... it doesn't say. I prefer not to speculate.

In order to understand Paul's words correctly the context must be examinied closely:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess.4:17).​

Paul is speaking about the time when the believer will be in the "presence" of the Lord Jesus' body at the rapture. Before the rapture the believer on the earth will not be in the presence of His body but at the rapture he will. That is the context so when Paul says "so shall we ever be with the Lord" after speaking about becoming in the presence of His body the meaning is clear--from that time on those in the Body of Christ will always be in the presence of the body of the Lord Jesus.

There is absolutely no reason to suppose that this is not the correct understanding of Paul's words in this verse.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Prove it!

Hi Jerry , and where do you see the B O C IN THE OT and is it found in the 4 GOSPELS ?

So who was the first person to ENTER THE BODY OF CHRIST ?

That is when the B O C BEGAN and not until then !

So Jerry who was THE FIRST PROTO /FIRST in the B O C ?

It has to the FIRST person saved by GRACE , ??

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ will return to the earth with the Lord Jesus to reign on the earth sometime after the rapture?

Hi Jerry and Eph 1:11 says that we have an INHERITANCE , so where is that INHERITANCE TO BE FOUND ?

See Eph 1:18 says that our INHERITANCE is in the HOLY PLACES ! So where are the HOLY PLACES ?

Col 1:12 says what the HOLY PLACES are found !

Israel's INHERITANCE is in the land of Israel >

dan p
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hi Jerry and Eph 1:11 says that we have an INHERITANCE , so where is that INHERITANCE TO BE FOUND ?

See Eph 1:18 says that our INHERITANCE is in the HOLY PLACES ! So where are the HOLY PLACES ?

Col 1:12 says what the HOLY PLACES are found !

Israel's INHERITANCE is in the land of Israel >

The nation of Israel will inherit the earth but now they have been temporarily set aside. However, the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation are told that they have an heavenly calling:

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb.3:1).​


Just like all of the rest of the members of the Body of Christ they have been raised up to the heavenly Jerusalem and to Jesus Christ:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​


That is exactly the same inheritance of the rest of the Body of Christ:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​


Dan, you confuse the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation with the Jews who will be alive when Israel will be restored to her position as a special people unto the LORD (Deut.7:6).
 

DAN P

Well-known member
The nation of Israel will inherit the earth but now they have been temporarily set aside. However, the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation are told that they have an heavenly calling:

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb.3:1).​


Just like all of the rest of the members of the Body of Christ they have been raised up to the heavenly Jerusalem and to Jesus Christ:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​


That is exactly the same inheritance of the rest of the Body of Christ:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​


Dan, you confuse the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation with the Jews who will be alive when Israel will be restored to her position as a special people unto the LORD (Deut.7:6).

Hi Jerry and as Heb 8:8 says Christ will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel and the house of Judah !

The B O C has no COVENANT and the New Covenant is found in Eze 36:25-38 and the B O C IS NOT MENTIONED !

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
The nation of Israel will inherit the earth but now they have been temporarily set aside. However, the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation are told that they have an heavenly calling:

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb.3:1).​


Just like all of the rest of the members of the Body of Christ they have been raised up to the heavenly Jerusalem and to Jesus Christ:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​


That is exactly the same inheritance of the rest of the Body of Christ:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved). And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​


Dan, you confuse the individual Jewish believers during the present dispensation with the Jews who will be alive when Israel will be restored to her position as a special people unto the LORD (Deut.7:6).

Hi Jerry and the " in CHRIST " IS only written by Paul and NOT by the Twelve !

dan p
 
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