Theology Club: 'In Christ' Before Me

[Jerry Shugart]

in Christ has 1 meaning which is :

in Christ

From what you said I understood that you were saying that the Olive Tree analogy has something to do with those who Paul said were "in Christ" before he was. Could you please be more specific in regard to what you are trying to prove?

 

[way 2 go]

From what you said I understood that you were saying that the Olive Tree analogy has something to do with those who Paul said were "in Christ" before he was. Could you please be more specific in regard to what you are trying to prove?

the olive tree is Christ , the branches are people in Christ

Jesus Christ did not change .

the dispensation changed

 

[Jerry Shugart]

the olive tree is Christ , the branches are people in Christ

The analogy of the Olive tree speaks of some of the branches being broken off. But if the branches are the people in Christ that means that some people who are in Christ can be broken off of being in Christ even though the Lord Jesus said the following:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

 

[way 2 go]

The analogy of the Olive tree speaks of some of the branches being broken off. But if the branches are the people in Christ that means that some people who are in Christ can be broken off of being in Christ even though the Lord Jesus said the following:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

no

unbelieving branches broken off , Rom 11:20

 

[Jerry Shugart]

no

unbelieving branches broken off , Rom 11:20

So even though you said that the branches of the Olive Tree are people who are "in Christ" you now say that some of the branches are unbelievers:

the olive tree is Christ , the branches are people in Christ

Please tell me how unbelievers ever became branches of the Olive Tree.

 

[way 2 go]

So even though you said that the branches of the Olive Tree are people who are "in Christ" you now say that some of the branches are unbelievers:

different branches same root.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

Jesus Christ did not change , the dispensation did .

Please tell me how unbelievers ever became branches of the Olive Tree.

they were descendants of Abraham

already quoted Jesus and the fig tree .

Luk 13:7 And he said to the vinedresser, 'Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?'
Luk 13:8 And he answered him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure.
Luk 13:9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

different branches same root.

You want it both ways. You say that the branches of the Olive Tree are people in Christ:

the olive tree is Christ , the branches are people in Christ

But then you said that the branches of the Olive tree can be broken off:

unbelieving branches broken off , Rom 11:20

So according to your strange ideas the branches are in Christ but they can be broken off despite the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

You are totally confused!

 

[way 2 go]

You want it both ways. You say that the branches of the Olive Tree are people in Christ:

yes
Rom 11:17

But then you said that the branches of the Olive tree can be broken off:

no , that would be what you said

I quoted Rom 11:20

So according to your strange ideas the branches are in Christ but they can be broken off despite the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).
​

You are totally confused!

you are confused

 

[Jerry Shugart]

you are confused

So please clear up the point of confusion if you are able. How does a person come to become "in Christ"?

 

[Right Divider]

So please clear up the point of confusion if you are able. How does a person come to become "in Christ"?

It depends on the dispensation.

There's a reason that the Bible tells us that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch and not in Jerusalem.

 

[way 2 go]

So please clear up the point of confusion if you are able. How does a person come to become "in Christ"?

grafted in

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It depends on the dispensation.

So what did it take for the Jews like Andronicus and Junia (Ro.16:7) to be "in Christ"? Were they not saved by grace apart from works?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

grafted in

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

So just as a person is grafted "into Christ" that same person can be broken off from being in Christ?:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

 

[way 2 go]

So just as a person is grafted "into Christ" that same person can be broken off from being in Christ?:

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

no

 

[Jerry Shugart]

no

So you quote your verse to prove that some were grafted into Christ but then you want us to ignore the part which demonstrate that some can be broken off of Christ:


Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

 

[way 2 go]

So you quote your verse to prove that some were grafted into Christ but

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and became a sharer of the root and the fatness of the olive tree with them,

yes

then you want us to ignore the part which demonstrate that some can be broken off of Christ:

the unbelieving branches were broken off , Rom 11:20

 

[Jerry Shugart]

yes

the unbelieving branches were broken off

This is what the Lord Jesus said to people like Andronicus and Junia, who Paul said were "in Christ" before he was (Ro.16:7):

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (Jn.6:37).​

According to your ideas there were some who were "in Christ" but later because of unbelief they were cast out of Christ even though the Savior Himself said that those who come to Him will not be cast out!

 

[way 2 go]

According to your ideas there were some who were "in Christ" but later because of unbelief they were cast out of Christ even though the Savior Himself said that those who come to Him will not be cast out!

no.

different branches same root.
Jesus Christ did not change , the dispensation did .


Jesus and the fig tree . the fig tree was cut down

Luk 13:7 And he said to the vinedresser, 'Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?'
Luk 13:8 And he answered him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure.
Luk 13:9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

no.

different branches same root.

So some can be "in Christ" but later no longer be "in Christ"?

 

[way 2 go]

So some can be "in Christ" but later no longer be "in Christ"?

no.


Jesus and the fig tree . the fig tree was cut down

Luk 13:7 And he said to the vinedresser, 'Look, for three years now I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and I find none. Cut it down. Why should it use up the ground?'
Luk 13:8 And he answered him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and put on manure.
Luk 13:9 Then if it should bear fruit next year, well and good; but if not, you can cut it down.'"

Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.