musterion
Well-known member
Theology Club: Did the Body of Christ Began at Acts 9?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
musterion
Well-known member
I'm not sure what the point of this thread is. People were saved prior to Paul...I've never seen a MAD say otherwise.
MADs believe (variously) the BoC could not have begun prior to Paul's being saved (hence the name MAD).
What are you getting at?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what Dan P said earlier in this thread:
And the Greek word PROTO means FIRST saved and not the biggest SINNER as Phil 3:6 under the Law BLAMELESS !!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
In the Berean Searchlight Win Johnson wrote:
"Matthew 12:31,32 states: 'Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [age], neither in the world to come.'
"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).
"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).
"These words of warning came from the lips of the Son of God while He walked among men in His earthly ministry. They were addressed to the religious leaders of the nation Israel. Their blasphemy against Him even when He hung on the Cross was forgiven by the Father in answer to the prayer, 'Father forgive them, for they know not what they do' (Luke 23:34).
"But when at Pentecost, Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, announced the return of Messiah on the condition of Israel's national repentance, these leaders instigated a persecution that reached its climax in the stoning of Stephen, a godly man, 'full of the Holy Ghost' (Acts 7:54-60). It was here that the 'unpardonable sin' was committed by Israel's leaders. The Third Person of the Trinity had been blasphemed and His pleadings through the Apostles ignored. This sin will never be forgiven" (Win Johnson, "The Unpardonable Sin," The Berean Searchlight, Feb.2001, p.6).
The "unpardonable sin" was committed at Acts 7, and I believe that at that point in time national Israel was temporarily set aside. I believe that at that time the Holy Spirit baptized all believers into the Church, which is His Body.
After all, what was the Lord to do with the Jewish believers since He had concluded the nation of Israel as a whole in unbelief?:
"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all" (Ro.11:30-32).
Right Divider
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Jerry, you're becoming just as bad as some other here at TOL that TRY to put words in other peoples mouthes.
Please show me where I said that "Paul was the first one to be saved".
You are the one that has problems with English and I did notice that YOU ignored that verse entirely.
musterion
Well-known member
As a member of the Body of Christ, I believe Dan means. You know that.
So you are an Acts 7 dispensationalist. Interesting. In practical terms, that distinguishes you from Acts 9...how?
Also...if it could be shown (I doubt it can) that someone Paul said was in Christ before him was saved prior to Acts 7, what then? I ask b/c I can't tell yet if you're distinguishing between being "in Christ" and being in the BODY of Christ, or if you think the terms are interchangeable.
Hi and I will says to all , that there are no Acts 2 or Acts 7 or Acts 13 or Acts 28 or anything called Mid-Acts in the bible !!
Acts 9:6 is where Paul was saved and 1 Cor 12:3 as Paul was the PROTOS / FIEST saved by Grace in Gal 1:15 !!
That is just ONE reason why Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles and Paul FULFILLS Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 !!
To all those that are committed to a Mid-Acts position , Dp you now PERSUADE men OR God , or do you seek to Please men ?? Gal 1:10
dan p
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whitestone
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I wondered who would spot in the theory Paul himself being left out,,,
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Please explain....
whitestone
Well-known member
If at the stoning of Steven there was a line drawn in the sand there was a young man named Saul standing there holding the coats.
Saul then was on the road as we know and the Lord appeared to him. At that time Saul was not repenting,he still believed that this person the Christians were calling the Messiah,in his heart was in fact not.
Saul was not asking for forgiveness because he didn't believe he was doing anything incorrect. If we consider Saul was not confessing Jesus as the Christ,he was denying him that day on that road.
If these are the final straw of denying Jesus that those who stoned him that day committed then that same young boy named Saul also committed them. So that same Saul,Paul then would not be in the Body if this is correct.
Paul though is of shear grace,in the midst of committing all the sins of denial given grace anyway. There was nothing he was doing that day on the road that displayed that he had any type change of heart on his beliefs.
So if the final straw is drawn at the stoning of Steven then Saul was consenting to it and would have committed the same unpardonable sin. It is obvious though that he did not that day consenting,holding their coats separate himself out of the body of Christ.
Hi and Paul was saved without Repentance as repentance is WORKS AS seen in Acts 26:20 !!
Where do you start the Body of Christ and give a verse as proof !!
Many do not see how Paul was saved , so how will you explain your salvation ??
dan p
whitestone
Well-known member
I see Colossians 1:18 KJV as the "head of the body" and the dbr as where my salvation came about Colossians 1:20 KJV .
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Absolutely!
Look at what Paul says here:
1Co 15:1-8 KJV Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; (2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. (3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; (4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: (5) And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: (6) After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. (7) After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. (8) And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Hi and BUT neither of those verses explain where the Body of Christ began >
It has to begin with some one and that SOMEONE was Paul as Paul was the first one saved by Grac e AS recorded in Gal 1:15 and in Rom 1:1 !!
I see where you are unsure IF you can NOT explain Axts 9:6 and 1 Cor 12 :3 !!
dan p
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Please quote me where I ever said that you said that "Paul was the first one to be saved."
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Abraham was saved by grace prior to Paul:
"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:1-4).
The Greek word translated "now" is a conjunction and this word ties what is said in verse 4 back to the previous verse, a verse that is speaking specifically about Abraham.
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Your post #17 certainly implies just that.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
WRONG! You are doing your best to put words in my mouth that I never saved!
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OK Jerry. Calm down.