Theology Club: Kept secret since the foundation of the world

[Tambora]

Matthew 13 KJV
(34) All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
(35) That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Yes, that's my question.

What things did Jesus utter that were kept secret since the foundation of the world?

Verse 34 tells you what He told them.
Verse 35 tells why.


Once Jesus told them the parables, it was no longer kept secret since the foundation of the world.

But then we come to Paul. And the mystery he had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.
So, Paul's secret cannot be the same secret as Jesus told the disciples, because what Jesus told His disciples was no longer a secret when Paul comes onto the scene.

Right?

 

[Danoh]

He asked me that some months back; when I answered him, it turned out he was baiting me.

Out came his Jerry-at-trick "wrong!"

He is just attempting to discredit all Dispys.

 

[Tambora]

He asked me that some months back; when I answered him, it turned out he was baiting me.

Out came his Jerry-at-trick "wrong!"

He is just attempting to discredit all Dispys.

Today is another day.
Hopefully this thread will stay on topic, and not be about personal opinions of others.
That's the goal of this forum.

 

[Danoh]

Today is another day.
Hopefully this thread will stay on topic, and not be about personal opinions of others.
That's the goal of this forum.

Was just clearing that up, but you're still right.

Please accept my apology, dear sister.

 

[Tambora]

Was just clearing that up, but you're still right.

Please accept my apology, dear sister.

Always.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Verse 34 tells you what He told them.
Verse 35 tells why.


Once Jesus told them the parables, it was no longer kept secret since the foundation of the world.

But then we come to Paul. And the mystery he had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.
So, Paul's secret cannot be the same secret as Jesus told the disciples, because what Jesus told His disciples was no longer a secret when Paul comes onto the scene.

Right?

Good points.

 

[Danoh]

Verse 34 tells you what He told them.
Verse 35 tells why.


Once Jesus told them the parables, it was no longer kept secret since the foundation of the world.

But then we come to Paul. And the mystery he had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.
So, Paul's secret cannot be the same secret as Jesus told the disciples, because what Jesus told His disciples was no longer a secret when Paul comes onto the scene.

Right?

It depends on how each approaches it.

1] Outside of MAD, some will hold they are one and the same "mysteries."

2] Within MAD, some will hold they are in a way related, but its balance not revealed until Paul.

Followed by another - Ephesian - mystery after that one.

3] Others within MAD will hold those mysteries in the gospels are related to that mystery in Daniel.

And that Paul's mystery is the same from Romans through Philemon.

This third one is the one I hold.

I do so because I see just about every aspect of Ephesians and Colossians scattered throughout Paul's Acts Epistle's - in the order I believe they were written: Galatians, Thessalonians, Corinthians, Romans...

STP will differ on this, but I love the brother in the Lord, and am just fine with his holding to his view as he does.

Once in a while I will throw a rock at his window, but it is more "hey, what's up, whatcha doin, wanna go fishin; compare fishing techniques;" that sort of thing.

I do not need him to agree with me, nor does he appear to need that I agree with him.

It appears he and I are able to major in the Major where our minors may differ.

Would that more were like this, but, as the Apostle Paul put it "there must also be heresies among you" and for the reason he stated there must also be, 1 Cor. 11:19.

Take that as my long winded intro, sis, lol

 

[Tambora]

It depends on how each approaches it.

I want to study and compare them all.

Take that as my long winded intro, sis, lol

:cheers:

 

[patrick jane]

Colossians chapter 1

Colossians 1:12-13 KJV and 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25


Colossians 1:26 KJV - Colossians 1:27-28 KJV and 29 -

Colossians 2:2 KJV - Colossians 2:3-4 KJV -

 

[Danoh]

I want to study and compare them all.

:cheers:

Lol, that little chalkboard reminds me of that chalkboard C.R. Jordan draws his time chart on, on YouTube.

 

[glorydaz]

Verse 34 tells you what He told them.
Verse 35 tells why.


Once Jesus told them the parables, it was no longer kept secret since the foundation of the world.

But then we come to Paul. And the mystery he had been kept secret since the foundation of the world.
So, Paul's secret cannot be the same secret as Jesus told the disciples, because what Jesus told His disciples was no longer a secret when Paul comes onto the scene.

Right?

So what were those things kept secret in the parables? :think:

 

[Danoh]

So what were those things kept secret in the parables? :think:

The Prophet Daniel's - Matthew thru Early Acts/Hebrews thru Revelation - Mystery of Israel's Earthly Kingdom, Rev. 10:7; 11:15.

Might as well let an expert lay it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSZVCGhRW_0

 

[achduke]

I want to study and compare them all.

:cheers:

Hope this helps.

http://swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Parables/List-In-Order.pdf

What I find interesting John omitted all the parables.

 

[Danoh]

In other words, it had been prophesied that their Messiah would speak of Israel's kingdom in parables their prophets had been unable to discern, but that His Own, in His Day would hear.

Note what the Samaritan women "other sheep not of this fold; them must I also bring" had been taught though her people had ended up half-breed Israelites for their having intermixed with the Samaritans way back when...

John 4:

13. Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

25. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

28. The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29. Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

39. And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

 

[Danoh]

Hope this helps.

http://swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Parables/List-In-Order.pdf

What I find interesting John omitted all the parables.

That's because John is looking at their coming kingdom's New Covenant. He is looking at things on the other side of what the parables concerning their coming kingdom and its King had been about.

John is focused on their King and the New Covenant He will enable them to be sons of God through.

John 1:

10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

49. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50. Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51. And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

John 19:

28. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
29. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
30. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31. But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

When I think of that - the days of Heaven on Earth that Moses had prophesied had been upon them, Deut. 11:21; Psalm 89: 29; Luke 17:22.

Instead we read, in Luke 19:

41. And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42. Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

 

[glorydaz]

Hope this helps.

http://swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Parables/List-In-Order.pdf

What I find interesting John omitted all the parables.

Thanks. I've never seen all the parables listed out that way before. Or if I have...I've forgotten. :thumb:

 

[achduke]

In other words, it had been prophesied that their Messiah would speak of Israel's kingdom in parables their prophets had been unable to discern, but that His Own, in His Day would hear.

Note what the Samaritan women "other sheep not of this fold; them must I also bring" had been taught though her people had ended up half-breed Israelites for their having intermixed with the Samaritans way back when...

John 4:

13. Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again:
14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

25. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

28. The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29. Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

39. And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.

I think you are mixing up the canaan woman with the samaritan woman.

Matt 15:22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon- possessed."

Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

The Canaanites were the original owners of Israel before Israel displaced most of the people.


The Samaria was the original home of the northern kingdom of Israel who were split from Judah.


Notice the samaritan woman talks of Jacob being her father also making her part of the original Israel before they were captured from the Assyrians.

John 4:12 "Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?"

In essence Israel being cast aside were like Gentiles to the Jews and not to be associated with.

John 4:9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

See Ezekiel 23 as for the fate of the house of Israel .

 

[Danoh]

I think you are mixing up the canaan woman with the samaritan woman.

Matt 15:22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon- possessed."

Matt 15:24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

The Canaanites were the original owners of Israel before Israel displaced most of the people.


The Samaria was the original home of the northern kingdom of Israel who were split from Judah.


Notice the samaritan woman talks of Jacob being her father also making her part of the original Israel before they were captured from the Assyrians.

John 4:12 "Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?"

In essence Israel being cast aside were like Gentiles to the Jews and not to be associated with.

John 4:9 Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.

See Ezekiel 23 as for the fate of the house of Israel .

I meant who I posted: the Samaritans (half-breeds who were nevertheless a part of His "other sheep not of this fold" as Israel was then divided, and the Samaritans were on the other side of said division, Ezekiel 37).

Samaria was once the land of the tribe of Ephraim, and the half-tribe Manasseh. When the majority of these tribes ended up captive under Assyria, Gentiles moved into their land, eventually intermarrying with those of Ephraim and Manasseh that had managed to avoid being taken captive by the Assyrians.

As a result, they were viewed by other Israelites as unclean half-breeds.

They also ended up an Israelite-Gentile (Pagan) version of Israel’s religion, 2 Kings 17: 24-28; Ezra 4:2-11.

Thus; part of the reason behind the Lord’s Words to the Samaritan woman when she said to Him, in John 4:

20. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

 

[achduke]

I meant who I posted: the Samaritans (half-breeds who were nevertheless a part of His "other sheep not of this fold" as Israel was then divided, and the Samaritans were on the other side of said division, Ezekiel 37).

Samaria was once the land of the tribe of Ephraim, and the half-tribe Manasseh. When the majority of these tribes ended up captive under Assyria, Gentiles moved into their land, eventually intermarrying with those of Ephraim and Manasseh that had managed to avoid being taken captive by the Assyrians.

As a result, they were viewed by other Israelites as unclean half-breeds.

They also ended up an Israelite-Gentile (Pagan) version of Israel’s religion, 2 Kings 17: 24-28; Ezra 4:2-11.

Thus; part of the reason behind the Lord’s Words to the Samaritan woman when she said to Him, in John 4:

20. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Understood. I find it interesting. Israel walked directly with God and rejected him many times until being dispersed among the nation's to be as Gentiles. Judah walked a similar path. God says he will bring them back at the end. It goes to show that the law does not save in its own right. We need the holy spirit guiding us to keep us on track.

 

[Danoh]

Understood. I find it interesting. Israel walked directly with God and rejected him many times until being dispersed among the nation's to be as Gentiles. Judah walked a similar path. God says he will bring them back at the end. It goes to show that the law does not save in its own right. We need the holy spirit guiding us to keep us on track.

I was just now reflecting once more on how that, even we of Mid-Acts so differ in each our respective level of understanding on so many issues - this, due to where we each are, have or have not explored a thing, how, or how we have not approached doing so - that we end up a land mine to one another; if we're not careful.

What you said there about the Spirit's leading there, for example.

Talk about what a land mine that can, and too often, has set off...

To paraphrase, Festus, "thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee MAD," lol.