Theology Club: For Jerry: Synthesis of Synoptic and Johannine Points-of-View

Brother Vinny

Active member
Carrying over from another thread, I ceded Jerry, for the sake of argument, that he is correct in his interpretation of Johannine verses on soteriology. Jerry believes the saved-by-faith-without-works gospel was part of Jesus' earthly teachings. Allowing that (again, for the sake of argument, I am interested in what Jerry--who prooftexts entirely from John, ignoring the synoptics--does with passages such as the one below (bold emphasis mine):

Matthew 25:31-46 said:
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[a] you did it to me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

In each of the bolded instances above, Jesus refers to an action one who purports to follow Him has taken during life. Notice none of those actions have anything to do with believing. Everyone is given rewards--either inheritance of the kingdom or eternal punishment--based on these works.

And this is just one of many examples.

The repercussions for the Body of Christ, if Christ's teachings in the gospels are meant to be harmonized into a whole with those He gave Paul for the Body, are staggering. To be honest, I really don't see much of a need for dispensationalism at all if we're going back to harmonizing tensions between Paul and James via verbal gymnastics. Might as well become convenantists at that point, because that's what they do.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Jerry believes the saved-by-faith-without-works gospel was part of Jesus' earthly teachings. Allowing that (again, for the sake of argument, I am interested in what Jerry--who prooftexts entirely from John, ignoring the synoptics--does with passages such as the one below:

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mt.25:31-34).​

Here we see that it is the one who "overcomes" who will inherit all things:

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" (Rev.21:7).​

And here we see how one overcomes:

"Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 Jn.5:1-5).​

Here we can see that it is a person's faith that overcomes the world. We can also see that those who 'believe" that Jesus is the Christ are born of God.

Of course once a person is born of God by 'faith" alone he becomes a child of God and is saved.

Do you agree with that?

To be honest, I really don't see much of a need for dispensationalism at all if we're going back to harmonizing tensions between Paul and James via verbal gymnastics. Might as well become convenantists at that point, because that's what they do.

The dispensations are in regard to the different stewardships, or "serving" the Lord. They are not about "salvation," because throughout history men have been saved in only one way, by grace through faith.

Do you agree that James is teaching that only "faith" is needed to be born of God here?:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​
 
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