Theology Club: Galationism...

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
"One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind... For whatsoever is not of faith is sin" Rom. 14:5, 23.

Why do you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of this verse? Especially the part in "bold"?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Here we read that anyone who believes is saved.

But you say that what is said is not true because, according to you, the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved by faith alone!

You just flat out deny what is said at John 3:16 and because of your heart of unbelief you continue to deny what is said there.

Then to make it worse you just flat out refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

Do you actually think that your behavior is winning converts to your view? If you do then you are not playing with a full deck.
 

Danoh

New member
"Whatsoever is not of faith, is sin," Rom. 14:23

In other words, unless a man is not "fully persuaded in his own mind," then to attempt to force it on him, is as much sin against him, as it is sin for him to subscribe to it, just to appease the other side.

Give up your religion, Jerry - give up your need to pester after others into holding your view, right or wrong.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Not sure if your question was ever answered; here are my thoughts on that...

Regarding your "why Mid-Acts"* and why isn't it the whole NT and OT," it is not that it is not the whole NT and OT, rather; where the whole NT and OT are being viewed from.

From a Mid-Acts* Perspective.

This, the result of Induction - the gathering of facts towards their contrastive analysis in an attempt to arrive at an understanding of what they point to.

Other's "one gospel" conclusion differs due to how they apply Induction.

Both sides are looking at the same information, but how they are looking at it, differs.

Because each is actually applying Induction, differently.

----------------------------------------------------------------

* Or, whatever the label Paul's distinctive ministry is referred to.

----------------------------------------------------------------

As another example, say, someone holds to Partial Preterism, or Amillennialism, or some other perspective - that is just a label as a means of identifying where each is viewing all Scripture from, in contrast to where others are viewing all Scripture from, when describing differences in understanding.

The question is not the label, as all a label is, is a handy means of talking about things. As in "Put that 'container of beans' in the cupboard, and put 'that container of eggs,' in the refrigerator."

And at some point all parties involved in that exchange came to hold to those labels - container, beans, milk, cupboard, refrigerator - as basically communicating the same understanding between said parties.

Where the nit picking comes in is not so much in difference in labels, nor in difference as to what goes where - the beans the frig, the milk in the cupboard, for example - but in the need that some individuals feel compelled to - to nitpick.

Out of some personal issue such individuals then rationalize, into some personal mission as their means of justifying their actions against others out of this personal quirk of theirs.

I suspect these "O foolish Galatians," may once have known better. That they are simply too far gone in their need to lord their issue over others, "that they might glory in your flesh."

Rather than liberated by truth, such seize it and make it captive to their bondage with them. Never really freed by the truth they profess; such cannot but be compelled to go out and attempt to do likewise as to others.

Galatianism. Plain and simple...

"Their conscience" no longer "accusing" them, rather "excusing" their "need." Their conscience long since "past feeling."

But again, Mid-Acts is just a label summarizing a perspective from which all Scripture is viewed as it is approached.

Case in point, rather someone like Darby was, the first or not, to begin to see all Scripture from what came to be known as the Dispensational perspective; the real issue is whether or not his basis was sound.

And the meaning of "soundness" differs: is dependent upon; where each individual thinks he or she, is looking at things from, in contrast to where they might actually be looking at things from...

...as much as nit picking is based on what one feels compelled to have to pester, and pester, and pester another with, all the while feeling "right" in their action...all the while, an example of "bondage."

A neon sign on a dark, lonely road - "Danger: Bondage Ahead!"


yes, all things we observe and know, yet we still do it. it's good to see it written or posted, thanks Danoh. we notice these intricacies and plug away on the keyboard, never resolving the post from 6 months ago or finishing thoughts and topics -

i understand the label thing, that's also one of the first things i harped on when i got here. i'm used to it and understand, i was venting i suppose -
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Meaning, whether or not some are hiding from you or have some other reason for not dealing with you as to one passage or another - you still have no right to hound after others as you do in every post and or thread regardless of topic, only to accuse them of hiding from you for their ignoring you for your lack of grace.

The sad part is that even when people do respond to his badgering with actual answers, he continues to claim they haven't answered. I finally put him on my Ignore List like I did God's UNtruth, and for the same reason. They both repeat the same thing over and over again and they never listen. Never. :rip:
 

Danoh

New member
The sad part is that even when people do respond to his badgering with actual answers, he continues to claim they haven't answered. I finally put him on my Ignore List like I did God's UNtruth, and for the same reason. They both repeat the same thing over and over again and they never listen. Never. :rip:

Yeah, he is a good example of how the Gentiles' foolish heart was darkened through the ignorance in them of the truth against themselves that they continued to excuse.

He is an example of how Pharaoh's heart was hardened more and more, the more he resisted the truth about himself.

To be sure, Jerry's sin has found him out and continues to.

Just about every one he engages anywhere on TOL, he ends up alienating with this hounding and need to have his views not only agreed with, but repeated back to him.

I'm beginning to wonder if the guy is even saved.

Usually, someone so adamant that others subscribe to their view is merely manifesting their own deeply seated doubt about it.

But their problem is never resolved for them because it is not really a problem that feedback from others can ever hope to resolve.

Like the ever insecure spouse (or the would be, but legalist teacher).

No matter what "evidence" is presented, or not, either is ever doomed to fail such an individual's immediate re-translating of it into evidence confirming their neurotic delusion.

Their problem never resolvable simply because the problem comes from within themselves...

As the Apostle Paul put it - they "are straightened in" their "own bowels, not in" those they assert are at cause.

Fortunately, Jerry is a nobody. For his is the very makeup of history's various tyrants - Lenin, Hitler, Mao, et al...

Ever attempting to impose their will on others; only to be incensed when someone comes along to point out the obvious - that their sin has found them out.

Here's to the memory of those throughout history who have ever stood up against Jerry's would be dominance of their faith.

To the freedom; to the liberty that is the truth of Romans 14:23's " whatsoever is not of faith is sin," against such would be tyranny.

"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen," Rom. 16:20.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
To be sure, Jerry's sin has found him out and continues to.

You can say that but all you are doing is attacking my character because I have exposed your hidden agenda. You continue to mislead others by saying that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from the law and that is the best way you can think of to discredit the true MAD.

You know that your ideas are contradicted by the Lord Jesus' own words here spoken to those Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

Here the Lord Jesus makes it plain that "believing" is the only thing that a Jew who lived under the law had to do to be saved. Despite that you continue to try to deceive others into believing that those Jews could not be saved unless they believed and did works.

And you do that because it is the best way which you can think of to discredit the true MAD. You are a traitor to the true MAD!

Fortunately, Jerry is a nobody. For his is the very makeup of history's various tyrants - Lenin, Hitler, Mao, et al...

All you demonstrate is your desperation to attack me in the hope that no one will notice that you will not even attempt to address the verses which I quote which expose your deceit.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
I'm not sure there is a "true MAD". I suspect if Andersen and O'Hair were on TOL, they'd disagree at times, and also with you Jerry.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I'm not sure there is a "true MAD". I suspect if Andersen and O'Hair were on TOL, they'd disagree at times, and also with you Jerry.

There is one MAD that is one heck of a lot more true that the other one.

And both Anderson and O'Hair believed that from the beginning of time all men have been saved by grace through faith apart from works.

And both men also believed that the doctrine found in Romans through Jude is for those in the Body of Christ.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
There is one MAD that is one heck of a lot more true that the other one.

And both Anderson and O'Hair believed that from the beginning of time all men have been saved by grace through faith apart from works.

And both men also believed that the doctrine found in Romans through Jude is for those in the Body of Christ.

What if they were mistaken?

At the judgement seat, you will suffer your own loss. They won't be able to accept it for you, if they were mistaken.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
What if they were mistaken?

At the judgement seat, you will suffer your own loss. They won't be able to accept it for you, if they were mistaken.

They were not mistaken when they said that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by faith apart from works. After all, these is what the Savior said to those Jews:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

It was those who believed His words who were saved, and that is made plain by His words here spoken to the Jews who lived under the law:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

If you continue to deny these words of the Savior then there can be no doubt that at the judgement seat you will suffer your own loss.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I don't believe that I do.
There is context all around those verses.

The words of the Lord Jesus here mean exactly what they say:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The context where these words are found do not change the meaning of His words in anyway. If He meant to convey the thought that those who believe and do works are saved then He would have said that but He did not.What He said there is either true or it is false.

According to you what He said was not true.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I believe you are mistaken about that.

Then tell me why the Lord Jesus did not say "believe and do works"?

If it took both to be saved then what He said here could not possibly be true because He names only one requirement to be saved:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

if it took more that faith to receive life why would He only name one thing which brings life?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Then tell me why the Lord Jesus did not say "believe and do works"?

If it took both to be saved then what He said here could not possibly be true because He names only one requirement to be saved:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

if it took more that faith to receive life why would He only name one thing which brings life?:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​



Hi and all need to read is in Acts 26:20 , for all of Israel had to Repent and Repentance is WORKS in Acts 26:20 as is Matt 3:8 and is why the one's saved today do not need to repent , 1 Cor 2:14 !!

dan p
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
I will soon be moving on, as well. For I find that what I signed on this forum for - exploration and sharing with others of like precious faith, and in the spirit of fellowship - is ever sabotaged by this fool's neurotic need.

In this, perhaps it is not ironic at all that he has turned a thread about Galatianism, into a thread about him.

Don't let him force you out. That's what he wants....that's what he's working for. Just place him on Ignore like any other troll. :listen:
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Don't let him force you out. That's what he wants....that's what he's working for. Just place him on Ignore like any other troll.

Why don't carry on for him?

All you have to do is to tell us why the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law that all they had to do in order to be saved was to believe since you say that they had to believe and to do works in order to be saved:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hi and all need to read is in Acts 26:20 , for all of Israel had to Repent and Repentance is WORKS in Acts 26:20 as is Matt 3:8 and is why the one's saved today do not need to repent , 1 Cor 2:14 !!

You didn't read Acts 26:20 close enough:

"But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance" (Acts 26:20).​

Why would you ever think that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works since the Lord Jesus told them this?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​
 
Top