Theology Club: Evidence that the Present Dispensation Began at Acts 9?

[Jerry Shugart]

I see no evidence that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 9. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

The present dispensation began when the dispensational responsibility was first exercised by Paul. And since the following verse is speaking about Paul's gospel we can know that the present dispensation did not begin until he began to preach that gospel to Gentiles:

"But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being" (Gal.1:15-16).​

I believe that Paul first preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles here:

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:46-48).​

After an examination of all the evidence I can only conclude that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 13 and not Acts 9.

What evidence can anyone give that it began at Acts 9?

 

[Danoh]

You mean outside "the Greek," and "the best translation" and Dr, so and so some fifty years ago, all cherry picked to fit your notions, and its need to constantly hound others about these issues, for decades now?

Personally, I am surprised anyone bites - your agenda; the glory of "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!" is well known.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Personally, I am surprised anyone bites - your agenda; the glory of "Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!" is well known.

Of course you never address any verse which contradicts your mistaken ideas. All you do is to attack the one who quotes verses which contradict your ideas in the hope that no one will notice that you have nothing intelligent to say about the subject.

Nothing ever changes with you!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I can only surmise that those in the Neo-Mad community have no evidence which proves that the present dispensation began at Acts 9. Again, their theology is based on nothing but thin air!

I have presented evidence that they are in error and they have not even attempted to prove that I am wrong.

 

[Danoh]

I can only surmise that those in the Neo-Mad community have no evidence which proves that the present dispensation began at Acts 9. Again, their theology is based on nothing but thin air!

I have presented evidence that they are in error and they have not even attempted to prove that I am wrong.

Just as Teltelestai "can only surmise that those in the Mad community have no evidence - which proves... their theology is based on nothing but thin air!"

He too, has "presented 'evidence' that they are in error and they have not even attempted to prove that" he is "wrong."

Because, using your logic here, the issue is not Teltelestai himself, rather, no one is able to prove that twin brother of yours wrong.

One would think you would know better than that.

But you simply refuse to believe - you cannot for a minute fathom - that you are who they are avoiding, not the issues.

You are a narcissist thru and thru - a caustic one.

Cluelessness its handbook.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

But you simply refuse to believe - you cannot for a minute fathom - that you are who they are avoiding, not the issues.

You are a narcissist thru and thru - a caustic one.

Why are you not avoiding me?

I remember now! You are here to make excuses for why those in the Neo-Mad camp have not given any proof that the present dispensation began at Acts 9.

Besides that, you cannot stand it that I have given evidence from the Scriptures to support my view that the present dispensation began at Acts 13 and you have no evidence that it began at Acts 2 so you must attack my character.

That is your usual way of reacting on this forum, When you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger.

 

[heir]

I see no evidence that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 9. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

The present dispensation began when the dispensational responsibility was first exercised by Paul. And since the following verse is speaking about Paul's gospel we can know that the present dispensation did not begin until he began to preach that gospel to Gentiles:

"But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being" (Gal.1:15-16).​

I believe that Paul first preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles here:

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:46-48).​

After an examination of all the evidence I can only conclude that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 13 and not Acts 9.

What evidence can anyone give that it began at Acts 9?

The dispensation of the grace of God did not begin until Paul was a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the "you Gentiles" like that of the Ephesians. The sending to them was much later in Paul's ministry.

Think about it.

 

[Danoh]

Why are you not avoiding me?

I remember now! You are here to make excuses for why those in the Neo-Mad camp have not given any proof that the present dispensation began at Acts 9.

Besides that, you cannot stand it that I have given evidence from the Scriptures to support my view that the present dispensation began at Acts 13 and you have no evidence that it began at Acts 2 so you must attack my character.

That is your usual way of reacting on this forum, When you cannot answer the message you attack the messenger.

Lol, in your case, it is "the messenger "- you - who insists by his stalking others for years - that he be ignored.

But for common sense on my part, I should do likewise. Its not as if it appears you will ever get the simple fact that, right or wrong, you are a neurotic fool to go around for decades now hounding people about how right you supposedly are and how they should engage you about it.

S/S: Hi, I'm so and so, please to meet you :cheers:

JS: Hi, I'm Jerry K: :box::Grizzly::blabla:

S/S: Oh, that's nice :Christine

JS: :whip:

Forty years later...

S/S: :dog:

JS: :whip: and K:

 

[Danoh]

The dispensation of the grace of God did not begin until Paul was a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the "you Gentiles" like that of the Ephesians. The sending to them was much later in Paul's ministry.

Think about it.

"... like that of the Ephesians..." in Acts 20: 24 and Acts 2O: 32 before he ended up at Rome, Acts 23:11...

 

[heir]

"... like that of the Ephesians..." in Acts 20: 24 and Acts 2O: 32 before he ended up at Rome, Acts 23:11...

I'm referring to that of the second sending of Paul, dear Danoh.

 

[Danoh]

I'm referring to that of the second sending of Paul, dear Danoh.

We differ on that, but that's cool; that I can see, it impacts no important doctrine.

By the way, what film is that Audrey Hepburn picture from - what a sweat heart of a person she appears to have been.

In the spirit of Romans 14 principle, sis.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The dispensation of the grace of God did not begin until Paul was a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the "you Gentiles" like that of the Ephesians. The sending to them was much later in Paul's ministry.

As you should know by now a dispensation is a "stewardship" and the ones who have been given the stewardship by the LORD have a specific responsibily to carry out.

In Paul's case what was that responsibility? To become a prisoner of Jesus Christ? I cannot believe that was his stewardship responsibility.

Even those who are not dispensationalists understand what Paul's stewardship responsibility was. Joseph Henry Thayer says the following about the Geek word oikonomia, which is translated as both "dispensation" and "stewardship" in the Bible:

"the office of a manager or overseer, stewardship...hence the word is transferred by Paul in a theocractic sense to the office (duty) intrusted to him by God...of proclaiming to men the gospel" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicion).​

Thayer then cites this verse as evidence of what he said:

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

I see no evidence that being a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the Gentiles is a dispensational responsibility but preaching the gospel of grace to the Gentiles was certainly his dispensational responsibility.

 

[Right Divider]

I see no evidence that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 9. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).​

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).​

The present dispensation began when the dispensational responsibility was first exercised by Paul. And since the following verse is speaking about Paul's gospel we can know that the present dispensation did not begin until he began to preach that gospel to Gentiles:

"But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being" (Gal.1:15-16).​

I believe that Paul first preached the gospel of the grace of God to the Gentiles here:

"Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:46-48).​

After an examination of all the evidence I can only conclude that the present "dispensation of the grace of God" began at Acts 13 and not Acts 9.

What evidence can anyone give that it began at Acts 9?

It is CLEAR from the first three verses that you quoted that Paul SINGLES himself out as the receiver of THIS dispensation. Continue in ignorance if you like.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Its not as if it appears you will ever get the simple fact that, right or wrong, you are a neurotic fool to go around for decades now hounding people about how right you supposedly are and how they should engage you about it.

It surprises me none that you call me a"neurotic fool" because I am doing what Paul tells those in the Body to do:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.4:2-4).​

Those in the Neo-MAD community have turned their ears from the truth that all men are saved by faith alone because they teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

But here we see that faith is the only thing which is required for salvation:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You have more faith in your fables than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. That is why I rebuke you and all those in the Neo-MAD community.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is CLEAR from the first three verses that you quoted that Paul SINGLES himself out as the receiver of THIS dispensation. Continue in ignorance if you like.

At post #12 I said the following about Paul::

I see no evidence that being a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the Gentiles is a dispensational responsibility but preaching the gospel of grace to the Gentiles was certainly his dispensational responsibility.​

I challenge you to quote me where I have ever said that Paul was not the first to receive the dispensation or stewardship to preach the gospel of grace.

I am not in ignorance but I see no evidence coming from you that demonstrates that the present dispensation began at Acts 9.

 

[Danoh]

It surprises me none that you call me a"neurotic fool" because I am doing what Paul tells those in the Body to do:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.4:2-4).​

Those in the Neo-MAD community have turned their ears from the truth that all men are saved by faith alone because they teach that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works.

But here we see that faith is the only thing which is required for salvation:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

You have more faith in your fables than you do in what the Scriptures actually say. That is why I rebuke you and all those in the Neo-MAD community.

You quoted 2 Tim. 4:2-4, but what you mean is hound after those you differ in any understanding with - hound after them for decades - hunt them down and sick your sick need to do that, on them.

 

[Right Divider]

At post #12 I said the following about Paul::

I see no evidence that being a prisoner of Jesus Christ for the Gentiles is a dispensational responsibility but preaching the gospel of grace to the Gentiles was certainly his dispensational responsibility.​

I challenge you to quote me where I have ever said that Paul was not the first to receive the dispensation or stewardship to preach the gospel of grace.

I am not in ignorance but I see no evidence coming from you that demonstrates that the present dispensation began at Acts 9.

So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.

Why do you keep accusing me of things which are not true?

Again, I challenge you to quote me saying such a thing.

I can see that you are so intent on finally winning an argument that you just make up things about your opponents position.

 

[Danoh]

So you're one of those that think that a dispensation can start before it's dispensed. Got it.

Its odd how the world understands phrases like "baptism of fire" or a word like "dispensation," yet "Bible" students are often clueless.

Go down to the Home Depot Paint Department and request a specific color of paint off one of those color swatches.

They will then grab a gallon of White paint, place it in a Paint Mix Dispenser, and press certain buttons.

Said Dispenser then proceeds to dispense just the right measure of mix.

What does that little window read while that is happening, and until the fulness of that mix be come in?

"Dispensing..."

Jerry's problem is that his Bible is missing passages like the following from Romans 12's:

3. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You quoted 2 Tim. 4:2-4, but what you mean is hound after those you differ in any understanding with - hound after them for decades - hunt them down and sick your sick need to do that, on them.

I mean what I said. And all you do is to attack my character and run and hide from this verse which proves that you teaching is nothing more than a fable.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Of course you refuse to give your interpretation of the meaning of this verse because you do not have the ability to do so. And the reason is simple:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​

You are clueless about the meaning of John 3:16 and you know that you are. That is why you refuse to even attempt to give your interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

You do not want others to see just how blind you are to the truths found in the Bible.