Theology Club: Evidence that the Present Dispensation Began at Acts 9?

whitestone

Well-known member
Sir Robert Anderson said no such thing. Just because someone is saved by the first gospel does not mean that later they cannot become members of the Body of Christ.

At one time Apollos was a believer "knowing only the baptism of John":

"And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John" (Acts 18:24-25).​

But later, after Aquila and Priscilla had "expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly" (v.26) we see Paul saying that Apollos watered what he had planted and they are both "one":

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one" (1 Cor.3:5-8).​

Apollos was watering what Paul had planted because both were members of the Body of Christ and both were ministering to those in the Body of Christ. It is inconceivable that Apollos was not a member of the Body of Christ since Paul says that "he that planteth and he that watereth are one."

So even though a person might have been saved by believing the first gospel that does not hinder that person from becoming a member of the Body of Christ.


twice in post #60 you state "saved by the first Gospel" then "saved by believing the first Gospel" ,,,As for me I believe that until Jesus died on the cross,was buried,and then rose from the grave,(DBR) none were saved.

So the 12 whether they believed he was the Messiah or not nor the 70 disciples(or any who believed before the cross were saved),they did believe that he was the Messiah,but they did not understand how he would save them. If Peter(one of the 12) understood the matters of the cross he then would not have cut off the guards ear. There is the woman in Matthew 26:12-13 KJV who seemed to understand that he would die,but the others did not.

In post #28 you state that O'hair and Anderson both taught that the 12 were in the B.O.C.,,so this "TWO METHODS OF BEING SAVED" you are referring to when you say "saved by believing the first Gospel" here in #60 seems to counter/cancel the other statements.

In my post(that you quoted) I listed the 12,the 70,and the 3000(I did that on purpose because,) the 12 and the 70(and others) believed before the actual DBR that he was the true Messiah but did not understand the blood of the cross. The 3000 in Acts 2 believed both that he was the true Messiah and that he was crucified,buried and resurrected.

So maybe it would help if you explain the two methods of salvation you are referring to the one where they are saved by "believing the first Gospel(before the shed blood)",,and the second method of salvation. This I think is a curious matter in light of Acts 13:46 KJV that is now there are the 12,the 70,the 3000 and Paul who didn't believe until Acts 9 and Barnabas(who is said to be of the 70),,,so Barnabas,the 12 and others believed both before and after the cross. So when were they saved,when they believed in one of the two Gospels,or when Christ was crucified?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
twice in post #60 you state "saved by the first Gospel" then "saved by believing the first Gospel" ,,,As for me I believe that until Jesus died on the cross,was buried,and then rose from the grave,(DBR) none were saved.

You really need to put more time into Bible study because you are really uninformed. Here we see the Lord Jesus, before the Cross, telling a lady that she was already saved:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

So maybe it would help if you explain the two methods of salvation you are referring to the one where they are saved by "believing the first Gospel(before the shed blood)",,and the second method of salvation.

Throughout history there has only been one way of salvation and that method is grace thrugh faith.

The first gospel of which I spoke that brings salvation is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life by being born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:31).

The second gospel of which I spoke is the gospel of grace, the gospel which declares that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
Belief in that gospel brings salvation.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
You really need to put more time into Bible study because you are really uninformed. Here we see the Lord Jesus, before the Cross, telling a lady that she was already saved:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​



Throughout history there has only been one way of salvation and that method is grace thrugh faith.

The first gospel of which I spoke that brings salvation is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life by being born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:31).

The second gospel of which I spoke is the gospel of grace, the gospel which declares that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
Belief in that gospel brings salvation.


yes "a woman",,,the very same one from Matthew 26 that understood the cross and was forgiven. She did seem to understand that he was going to die for her sins and he needed to be prepared for burial,the others did not so he explained it to them.,,,thats why I worded it the way I did in my former post "about her".
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
yes "a woman",,,the very same one from Matthew 26 that understood the cross and was forgiven.

Where do you get that. And do you now admit that what you said here is in error?:

As for me I believe that until Jesus died on the cross,was buried,and then rose from the grave,(DBR) none were saved.

It is obvious that the lady at Acts 7 was saved and that happened before the Cross.

So maybe it would help if you explain the two methods of salvation you are referring to the one where they are saved by "believing the first Gospel(before the shed blood)",,and the second method of salvation.

Throughout history there has only been one way of salvation and that method is grace thrugh faith.

The first gospel of which I spoke that brings salvation is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life by being born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:31).

The second gospel of which I spoke is the gospel of grace, the gospel which declares that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
Belief in that gospel brings salvation.
 

Danoh

New member
Where do you get that. And do you now admit that what you said here is in error?:



It is obvious that the lady at Acts 7 was saved and that happened before the Cross.



Throughout history there has only been one way of salvation and that method is grace thrugh faith.

The first gospel of which I spoke that brings salvation is the fact that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God. And belief in that gospel brings life by being born of God (1 Jn.5:1-5; Jn.20:31).

The second gospel of which I spoke is the gospel of grace, the gospel which declares that the believer is "justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:24).
Belief in that gospel brings salvation.

How about that - Acts 7 happened before the Cross.

What's worse the "Freudian slip" [shod] of that obvious typo, lol, or the notion about that woman and or what she supposedly understood?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
How about that - Acts 7 happened before the Cross.

In my earlier post I was speaking about the woman at Luke 7. I just made a mistake.

Dang me, dang me, they ought to take a rope and hang me, high from the highest tree...--Roger Miller​
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
"... of that obvious typo..."

The only thing which is obvious is that you do not believe what is said about the salvation of the lady the Lord Jesus spoke to here:

And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

According to your idea the Lord Jesus was mistaken when He told her that her faith had saved her.

According to you those who lived under the law could not be saved by faith because no one could be saved except by faith and works.

You obviously have not yet figured out that your idea is contradicted by the Lord Jesus' own words!

Or you just don't care!
 

whitestone

Well-known member
In my earlier post I was speaking about the woman at Luke 7. I just made a mistake.

Dang me, dang me, they ought to hang me from the highest tree!--Roger Miller​

lol,I did realize you meant Luke 7 ,,,we are all human,,

I cant recant my position Jerry you see I am also dispie and not preterits so no I cannot change. Again though,here we all are the Acts9,13,2 ect. and me the odd ball who believes until the head of the body was fulfilled Colossians 1:18 KJV I find myself reasoning through how some see member's of the body of Christ present before the head,,,
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
lol,I did realize you meant Luke 7 ,,,we are all human,,

Thanks!

I cant recant my position Jerry you see I am also dispie and not preterits so no I cannot change.

So you continue to believe that what you said here is correct?:

As for me I believe that until Jesus died on the cross,was buried,and then rose from the grave,(DBR) none were saved.

You do not believe that the following lady was saved before the Cross despite the words of the Lord Jesus which prove you are wrong:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​
 

whitestone

Well-known member
Thanks!



So you continue to believe that what you said here is correct?:



You do not believe that the following lady was saved before the Cross despite the words of the Lord Jesus which prove you are wrong:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

You know as dispies, there is a curious thing to ask our own selves "is that woman in Matt. 26 or Luke 7 the first to realize that Jesus was about to die for our sins or was Paul the first,or just exactly who grasp it/or was given it?,,,where did the body begin with the head at the cross,or afterward? is she the woman an example of one who is "in the body or out,just like the 12 in or out debate"? She we can clearly see is the first time the scripture mentions someone being forgiven for believing in the D.B.R.,,,
 

Danoh

New member
lol,I did realize you meant Luke 7 ,,,we are all human,,

I cant recant my position Jerry you see I am also dispie and not preterits so no I cannot change. Again though,here we all are the Acts9,13,2 ect. and me the odd ball who believes until the head of the body was fulfilled Colossians 1:18 KJV I find myself reasoning through how some see member's of the body of Christ present before the head,,,

How is that odd?
 

Danoh

New member
You know as dispies, there is a curious thing to ask our own selves "is that woman in Matt. 26 or Luke 7 the first to realize that Jesus was about to die for our sins or was Paul the first,or just exactly who grasp it/or was given it?,,,where did the body begin with the head at the cross,or afterward? is she the woman an example of one who is "in the body or out,just like the 12 in or out debate"? She we can clearly see is the first time the scripture mentions someone being forgiven for believing in the D.B.R.,,,

The Body was made possible "by the Cross," Eph. 2:16.

Go from there; not before.

And said "of twain one new man" Eph. 2:15 began to be filled after Israel's fall, Rom. 3 and Rom. 9-11.

This, at the same time was Israel's 911...albeit "a shadow" or their wrath "to come..." Matt. 3: 7; Col. 2:17.
 

whitestone

Well-known member
The Body was made possible "by the Cross," Eph. 2:16.

Go from there; not before.

And said "of twain one new man" Eph. 2:15 began to be filled after Israel's fall, Rom. 3 and Rom. 9-11.

This, at the same time was Israel's 911...albeit "a shadow" or their wrath "to come..." Matt. 3: 7; Col. 2:17.

indeed,never sway from that exact position,,,you were dead before that cross but that day on that cross is the very beginning point they are all reasoning to find,never sway my friend from what you just said,,,,"you were born on the cross at Calvary",,,
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
So when Jerry says the Jews that "lived under the law" are saved by faith only, does that make any sense to you? It seems to me, a person is under the schoolmaster or NOT.

Once again you prove that you are ignorant of the principles of being saved by grace. Here we see that the Jews who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

You still do not know the principle that if it is of works then it cannot be said to be by grace:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

I showed you this just the other day but evidently it is above you meager understanding and it will always be above your meager understanding:

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Cor.2:14).​
 
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