Theology Club: Hid From Them, By Them...

[glorydaz]

Of course you just ignore the words of the Lord Jesus at John 5:24. I guess that you think if you just ignore those words it is just as good as answering them.

I will answer the verse you quoted. In order to do good one must work the works of God:

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent" (Jn.6:28-29).​

Now if I understand you correctly the Lord Jesus' words at John 5:24 are not in regard being saved because it says nothing about "belief in the death, burial, and resurrection."

So even though the Lord Jesus says that those who believe have eternal life and have passed from death to life you say those believers are not saved.

And what do you say about these words:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Jerry, I realize you have gone to the weakest link hoping to prove what you cannot seem to prove to those who are more knowledgeable than I am, but I am not going to play. I don't know....honestly, I don't. I have tried to read all sides on this but it simply isn't clear to me.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, I realize you have gone to the weakest link hoping to prove what you cannot seem to prove to those who are more knowledgeable than I am, but I am not going to play. I don't know....honestly, I don't. I have tried to read all sides on this but it simply isn't clear to me.

Usually you are the first to give your interpretation of the meaning of verses. All of a sudden all of that has changed and now you want no part of the verses which I quoted.

These words here could not be any plainer but you say what is said here is not clear to you:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

What about those words do you not understand?

 

[glorydaz]

I said this is not about whether or not sin is imputed to you or not. Instead, it is about whether or not you have sinned since you were saved.

And you did not answer this question:

Instead, are you saying that you have sinned since you were saved? ​

This is a simple question so you should have no problem answering it.

And my answer is simple. You just don't like my answer. You tell me I cannot answer your question as asked. You take away the correct answer and expect me to answer without the correct answer being there. Sink or swim? "No, you can't choose swim it's not about swimming", (says Jerry).


I have not sinned BECAUSE I am dead to sin.....because I am no longer a son of Adam....sin is not on the table. I am a new creature...created IN CHRIST JESUS. I am not under the law. So, I don't give a rip if you say "this is not about whether or not sin is imputed", BECAUSE it IS about whether sin is imputed. Your personal translation of the Bible and your putting verses off limits is the most ridiculous thing I have witnessed on this site (well, except for God's UNtruth and her ignorance). God says there is no sin in Christ, and I am in Christ. You don't believe that, do you? You don't understand that we are IN CHRIST JESUS.

Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Why are you working for him?

 

[glorydaz]

Usually you are the first to give your interpretation of the meaning of verses. All of a sudden all of that has changed and now you want no part of the verses which I quoted.

These words here could not be any plainer but you say what is said here is not clear to you:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

What about those words do you not understand?

Excuse me, blowhard Jerry, but I'm sick of your brow beating. You do this every single time I try to post. You're a bully...plain and simple.


I give my "interpretation" on those things I feel sure of, and the only thing I'm sure of at the moment is you're a big angry man waving his fist in the air shouting out a verse. One post after the other after the other, and you actually expect an answer? :AMR:

 

[Danoh]

Excuse me, blowhard Jerry, but I'm sick of your brow beating. You do this every single time I try to post. You're a bully...plain and simple.


I give my "interpretation" on those things I feel sure of, and the only thing I'm sure of at the moment is you're a big angry man waving his fist in the air shouting out a verse. One post after the other after the other, and you actually expect an answer? :AMR:

Its a shame to have to watch you go through this at the hands of someone who should know better by now.

His is the very spirit that ripped apart the Grace Movement years ago.

So much so, that he may not take my words as his shame, that Christ might be everything.

His reputation in this preceded him before I ever even knew of this site.

Knowing this, I gave him the benefit of the doubt to no avail.

Knowing this, I shall continue to.

I would suggest you do the same, for Christ's sake.

Otherwise, the legalism that so has a hold on him will only wax worse in its cancerous impact on you.

When instead, you could do with it what we have not only been called to, but have been fully enabled to.

Forgive one another, not based on merit, but in its absence - as God, for Christ sake for gave us - in the absence of our merit.

Such individuals can be toxic should we take our eye off the mark of the prize of the high calling that we have in Christ Jesus; ours but to access during such disappointing moments.

Dear precious sister in our Lord in this, your hurtful moment - in this, our hurtful moment with you and for you - remember the words of our pattern in Philippians 3:

14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Excuse me, blowhard Jerry, but I'm sick of your brow beating. You do this every single time I try to post. You're a bully...plain and simple.

I give my "interpretation" on those things I feel sure of, and the only thing I'm sure of at the moment is you're a big angry man waving his fist in the air shouting out a verse. One post after the other after the other, and you actually expect an answer? :AMR:

I see this all the time. When someone cannot answer the message they attack the messenger.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Its a shame to have to watch you go through this at the hands of someone who should know better by now.

I am only doing what Paul said to do:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (1 Tim.2:1-4).​

I am still waiting for you to address my remsarks about John 5:24. Or perhaps you want to give me your interpretation of the meaning of this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

 

[Danoh]

I am only doing what Paul said to do:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (1 Tim.2:1-4).​

I am still waiting for you to address my remsarks about John 5:24. Or perhaps you want to give me your interpretation of the meaning of this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

Very well, string words it is... I believe you - that is exactly what you are doing - still waiting.

Do you even hear your insolence?

You don't get that you're wrong to constantly have to have your way. You're a Grace bully.

Shame on you.

I keep in touch with various Grace people - not one of them has this condescending attitude of yours.

We differ on things; we explore them, and neither of us has to be right that the other be happy.

You are wrong in this. So much so that even when I was asserting something I agreed with you on in some other post you just needed to badger; needing to have it said to you in your own words.

You need to leave that at the Cross.

Reminds me of those who go on about "the best translation of" the following, while ignoring its plea - Philippians 1:

9. And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10. That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

See this how you will; for you unfortunately may...

Nevertheless - good news - none of us is the issue.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you even hear your insolence?

Go back and look at my posts and then quote the worst thing I have said.

I have never reverted to name-calling as both you and glorydaz do:

You're a Grace bully.

What you are really angry about is the fact that neither of you have a reasonable answer for such verses as John 5:24 and John 3:16.

All I can tell you both is:

If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.​

 

[glorydaz]

I would be interested in what you have to say about the points which I raised in regard to the Lord and Savior's words at John 5:24. Do you agree with my commentary on that verse?

I do not see how I can be wrong, especially with His following words in view here:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

I am only doing what Paul said to do:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (1 Tim.2:1-4).​

I am still waiting for you to address my remsarks about John 5:24. Or perhaps you want to give me your interpretation of the meaning of this verse:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (Jn.3:16).​

And we all know "your interpretation" had better be word for word what Jerry says. :nono:

 

[glorydaz]

I see this all the time. When someone cannot answer the message they attack the messenger.

Jerry, a messenger doesn't carry bamboo slivers and a copper bowl. :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Its a shame to have to watch you go through this at the hands of someone who should know better by now.

His is the very spirit that ripped apart the Grace Movement years ago.

So much so, that he may not take my words as his shame, that Christ might be everything.

His reputation in this preceded him before I ever even knew of this site.

Knowing this, I gave him the benefit of the doubt to no avail.

Knowing this, I shall continue to.

I would suggest you do the same, for Christ's sake.

Otherwise, the legalism that so has a hold on him will only wax worse in its cancerous impact on you.

When instead, you could do with it what we have not only been called to, but have been fully enabled to.

Forgive one another, not based on merit, but in its absence - as God, for Christ sake for gave us - in the absence of our merit.

Such individuals can be toxic should we take our eye off the mark of the prize of the high calling that we have in Christ Jesus; ours but to access during such disappointing moments.

Dear precious sister in our Lord in this, your hurtful moment - in this, our hurtful moment with you and for you - remember the words of our pattern in Philippians 3:

14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
16. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Thank you for your kind words. You'll notice that it was my positive reaction to your post that caused me to catch the eye of the rabid dog.


I really should remember that Jerry is like the husband in that movie "Sleeping with the enemy" with Julia Roberts. Each towel had to be lined up just so, and each can in the cupboard had to be exactly according to his prearranged designation.

I have yet to figure out what I was supposed to parrot back to Jerry in order to escape his notice.

 

[Tambora]

You can go all the way back to the beginning.

Adam was naked both before and after he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
But he wasn't ashamed of it until he knew good and evil.
There was no need to cover him before.

One could consider that avoiding the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the first law.
When there was no law, Adam needn't be covered, because where there is no law, sin is not imputed.

Romans 5 KJV
(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.​

Just a thought.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Jerry, a messenger doesn't carry bamboo slivers and a copper bowl. :chuckle:

Go back and look at my posts and then quote the worst thing I have said.

I have not sinned BECAUSE I am dead to sin.....because I am no longer a son of Adam....sin is not on the table. I am a new creature...created IN CHRIST JESUS. I am not under the law. So, I don't give a rip if you say "this is not about whether or not sin is imputed", BECAUSE it IS about whether sin is imputed. Your personal translation of the Bible and your putting verses off limits is the most ridiculous thing I have witnessed on this site (well, except for God's UNtruth and her ignorance). God says there is no sin in Christ, and I am in Christ. You don't believe that, do you? You don't understand that we are IN CHRIST JESUS.

So you are saying that you have not sinned since you have been saved and that happened several years ago?

 

[glorydaz]

Go back and look at my posts and then quote the worst thing I have said.

I do not see how I can be wrong,

So you are saying that you have not sinned since you have been saved and that happened several years ago?

What I said is sin is not imputed to me since I was saved (over forty years ago). What I said is I am not under the law therefore all things are lawful for me. I am not of the devil...those who commit sin are of the devil. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe. Therefore, my faults are not sins. So, Jerry, you can insist I'm saying what I'm not, but you'd be wrong. I know you hate that.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What I said is sin is not imputed to me since I was saved (over forty years ago).

That is not what you said. Here are your own words:

I have not sinned BECAUSE I am dead to sin.....because I am no longer a son of Adam....sin is not on the table. I am a new creature...created IN CHRIST JESUS. I am not under the law. So, I don't give a rip if you say "this is not about whether or not sin is imputed", BECAUSE it IS about whether sin is imputed. Your personal translation of the Bible and your putting verses off limits is the most ridiculous thing I have witnessed on this site (well, except for God's UNtruth and her ignorance). God says there is no sin in Christ, and I am in Christ. You don't believe that, do you? You don't understand that we are IN CHRIST JESUS.

I have been accused of all kinds of bad things but when you have a chance to prove that those things are true you do not even answer what I said here:

Go back and look at my posts and then quote the worst thing I have said.​

No one likes to be falsely accused of doing bad things and now it is up to you to give the evidence which proves that I have done bad things on this forum.

 

[glorydaz]

That is not what you said. Here are your own words:

Nice try....those words were a further explanation, which I gave because you were brow beating me to give you one.

I have been accused of all kinds of bad things but when you have a chance to prove that those things are true you do not even answer what I said here:

Go back and look at my posts and then quote the worst thing I have said.​

No one likes to be falsely accused of doing bad things and now it is up to you to give the evidence which proves that I have done bad things on this forum.

What you did, Jerry, was attack me because I was foolish enough to give Danoh a compliment on his post. So, out of the blue, you claimed I was saying I didn't sin....like God's UNtruth does. It was a deliberate attempt to undermine my belief....that I am no longer under the law and sin is not imputed to me because I am IN CHRIST.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nice try....those words were a further explanation, which I gave because you were brow beating me to give you one.

Your words speak for themselves:

I have not sinned BECAUSE I am dead to sin.....because I am no longer a son of Adam....sin is not on the table. I am a new creature...created IN CHRIST JESUS. I am not under the law. So, I don't give a rip if you say "this is not about whether or not sin is imputed", BECAUSE it IS about whether sin is imputed. Your personal translation of the Bible and your putting verses off limits is the most ridiculous thing I have witnessed on this site (well, except for God's UNtruth and her ignorance). God says there is no sin in Christ, and I am in Christ. You don't believe that, do you? You don't understand that we are IN CHRIST JESUS.

If those words do not represent what you meant then answer one simple question for me:

Have you sinned since you became saved?​

What you did, Jerry, was attack me because I was foolish enough to give Danoh a compliment on his post.

Then quote me attacking you.

 

[Danoh]

Thank you for your kind words. You'll notice that it was my positive reaction to your post that caused me to catch the eye of the rabid dog.


I really should remember that Jerry is like the husband in that movie "Sleeping with the enemy" with Julia Roberts. Each towel had to be lined up just so, and each can in the cupboard had to be exactly according to his prearranged designation.

I have yet to figure out what I was supposed to parrot back to Jerry in order to escape his notice.

Remember this one - she dusted him good, lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3LVthzm88g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3LVthzm88g

 

[glorydaz]

Have you sinned since you became saved?​

Poor Jerry. :nono:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; ...

Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.