Theology Club: Blotting out of sins future for Israel

[heir]

Peter preached Israel's sins being blotted out when they times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord which is what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

It is yet future. Paul confirmed it in Romans,


Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.


but that's not the case for those of us in the Body of Christ!


Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

PTL!

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Correctamundo, sister!

 

[beloved57]

Israel sins have been blotted out by the Cross of Christ ! Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[heir]

Israel sins have been blotted out by the Cross of Christ ! Col 2:14

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

:doh: That's not Israel's sins being blotted out, but the handwriting of ordinances (even the law of commandments contained in ordinances) that was a wall of partition between the Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent and the Gentiles to whom he was later sent.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

 

[beloved57]

:doh: That's not Israel's sins being blotted out, but the handwriting of ordinances (even the law of commandments contained in ordinances) that was a wall of partition between the Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent and the Gentiles to whom he was later sent.

Ephesians 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ephesians 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

It's God's Elect Col 3:12 being talked about in Col 2:14 !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter preached Israel's sins being blotted out when they times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord which is what many refer to as the second coming of the Lord.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

It is yet future.

Yes, it is future but the verses are not referring to the sins of 'individual" Jews but instead "corporate" Israel. After all, before the Cross "individual" Jews had their sins forgiven, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words to the woman who anointed His feet with oil:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

 

[beloved57]

Yes, it is future but the verses are not referring to the sins of 'individual" Jews but instead "corporate" Israel. After all, before the Cross "individual" Jews had their sins forgiven, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words to the woman who anointed His feet with oil:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

No it's not yet future, Christ work of the Cross has occurred in the past, no other way for sins to be blotted out, that is a false Gospel !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No it's not yet future, Christ work of the Cross has occurred in the past, no other way for sins to be blotted out, that is a false Gospel !

No one has their sins taken away until they believe:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Äcts 10:43).​

 

[beloved57]

No one has their sins taken away until they believe:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Äcts 10:43).​

That's another false gospel teaching, those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they're enemies /unbelievers Rom 5:10 and to be reconciled to God means no sins of yours has been charged upon you 2 Cor 5:19 !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's another false gospel teaching, those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they're enemies /unbelievers Rom 5:10 and to be reconciled to God means no sins of yours has been charged upon you 2 Cor 5:19 !

So you must think that Peter was in error when he said the following:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Äcts 10:43).​

Calvinism has warped your mind!

 

[beloved57]

So you must think that Peter was in error when he said the following:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Äcts 10:43).​

Calvinism has warped your mind!

No I don't believe Peter is in error, I believe that you don't believe Peter or understand what he is saying there !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No I don't believe Peter is in error, I believe that you don't believe Peter or understand what he is saying there !

Peter is saying that having one's sins taken away depended on believing in the Lord Jesus:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins" (Äcts 10:43).​

No one is saved and no one has their sins taken away until they believe in the Lord Jesus.

 

[beloved57]

js

Peter is saying that having one's sins taken away depended on believing in the Lord Jesus:

Invalid statement, thats not what Peter said !

 

[steko]

js



Invalid statement, thats not what Peter said !

Why, you've got your fingers firmly planted in your ears, don't you?

 

[Nick M]

For me, there is no future sin to blot out. I am dead to sin. All things are lawful for me. But I will not be brought under the power of them.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

For me, there is no future sin to blot out. I am dead to sin. All things are lawful for me. But I will not be brought under the power of them.

Indeed, Nick M the Magnificent.
You have already received the atonement, Romans 5.

 

[Danoh]

Yes, it is future but the verses are not referring to the sins of 'individual" Jews but instead "corporate" Israel. After all, before the Cross "individual" Jews had their sins forgiven, as witnessed by the Lord Jesus' words to the woman who anointed His feet with oil:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

Exactly!

Though a foretaste, the Little Flock had been recipients of the New Covenant's Promise of the Spirit, and had preached the same to Israel.

Those of that nation - Israel at large - who came from without their nation by believing that Jesus had been very Christ, became part of this new nation God was using in Early Acts to provoke Israel to jealousy through - the Believing Remnant - were forgiven of their sins, and made partakers of the Promise of the Spirit.

While the nation at large - their day of atonement - as a nation - is yet future.

Both these issues are evident in Hebrews thru Revelation.

John 1:

12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:

40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


1 John 3:

1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

2 Peter 1:

16. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

At the same time, Jerry, so much for that passage in 1 John being a Pre-Trib Rapture passage

 

[Jerry Shugart]

1 John 3:

1. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

At the same time, Jerry, so much for that passage in 1 John being a Pre-Trib Rapture passage

Of course it is a Pre-Trib rapture passage. The individual Jewish believer (as opposed to corporate Israel) knew that the appearance of the Lord Jesus when they would be made like Him was imminent. And the only imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus that is imminent is the Pre-Trib rapture. Here James affirms that the Jewish believers were awaiting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8; NIV).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).​

Pastor Paul Sadler, the president of the Berean Bible Society, writes:

"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).

Since only members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the rapture we can know, beyond any doubt, that those who originally received the Hebrew epistles were members of the Body of Christ. In the first century, as well as today, there is only one coming of the Lord Jesus which can be described as being "imminent" and that is His coming which will happen at the rapture.

 

[Danoh]

Of course it is a Pre-Trib rapture passage. The individual Jewish believer (as opposed to corporate Israel) knew that the appearance of the Lord Jesus when they would be made like Him was imminent. And the only imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus that is imminent is the Pre-Trib rapture. Here James affirms that the Jewish believers were awaiting an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus:

"You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near" (James 5:8; NIV).​

The Greek word translated "is near" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

In an article found on the "Pre-Trib Research Center" web site Dr. Renald E. Showers writes:

"In light of James' statements C. Leslie Mitton wrote, 'James clearly believed, as others of his time did, that the coming of Christ was imminent.' On the basis of James' statements we can conclude that Christ's coming was imminent in New Testament times and continues to be so today, and that this fact should make a difference in the way Christians live" [emphasis added] (Showers, The Imminent Coming of Christ).​

Pastor Paul Sadler, the president of the Berean Bible Society, writes:

"The 'secret' resurrection that will take place at the Rapture should never be confused with the 'first' resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ. Those who rightly divide the Word of truth now see that only the members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the Rapture" [emphasis mine] (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1993], 167).

Since only members of the Body of Christ will be raised at the rapture we can know, beyond any doubt, that those who originally received the Hebrew epistles were members of the Body of Christ. In the first century, as well as today, there is only one coming of the Lord Jesus which can be described as being "imminent" and that is His coming which will happen at the rapture.

Obviously, you and I, and or others, approach the study of the various issues differently in some aspect of our respective approach.

As a result, we are bound to differ in some areas.

Whether when we are in agreement or differ, I always find attempting to study out why either of the two is the case, and this as to either difference and or sameness in apporach, fascinating in itself.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Obviously, you and I, and or others, approach the study of the various issues differently in some aspect of our respective approach.

As a result, we are bound to differ in some areas.

Do you believe that the appearance of the Lord Jesus spoken of by James was not imminent?

Or do you believe that there is more than one imminent coming of the Lord Jesus that remains in the future?