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I wasn't talking about the law, I was talking about the New Covenant.
Why do you think that the body of Christ has a "high priest" if we have no priesthood?
Theology Club: WHEN WAS THE LAW SET ASIDE ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Why do you think that the body of Christ has a "high priest" if we have no priesthood?
The Old Testament predicted that the Messiah would be a Prophet, it also predicted that the Messiah would be a Priest (Ps. 110:4; Zech. 6:13). The fact that Jesus fulfilled the priestly office is taught throughout the Book of Hebrews. In fact, the only book in the New Testament that actually calls Yeshua a Priest is the Book of Hebrews, and it does so twelve times. According to Hebrews 3:1, Yeshua fulfilled the office of Priest.
The Book of Hebrews teaches eleven things about the Priesthood of Jesus. First, it was a Melchizedekian Priesthood, which meant that Yeshua could be both Priest and King (5:6; 6:19-20; 7:1-28). Secondly , the Priesthood of Jesus was sinless which was not true of the Levitical Priesthood (4:15). Thirdly, the Priesthood of Yeshua is eternal (7:25). Fourthly, the Priesthood of Jesus began at the cross (9:14; 12:24). Fifth, His Priesthood is not transitory (7:11-14), but immutable (7:20-22). Sixth, it is not temporary, but uninterrupted (7:23-25); He is going to hold it forever (7:15-19). Seventh, Yeshua clearly qualified for this office (1:3). Eighth, He was divinely appointed by God to this office (5:5-10). Ninth, His Priesthood is efficacious in that it will accomplish what it sets out to do, and that is to remove sin (10:4). Tenth, it will continue after the Ascension, and so continues to this day (4:14; 6:20; 8:1). And eleventh, it is an exalted Priesthood (9:14).
Today, Yeshua is fulfilling the function of Priest. Yeshua fulfilled both functions of the priesthood. First, in the area of sacrifice, He is both the sacrifice and the sacrificer (Heb. 9:11-15, 24-28; 10:12-14; I Cor. 5:7). The sacrifice of the Messiah accomplished three things: redemption (Rom. 3:24-25); propitiation (I Jn. 2:2); and reconciliation (Rom. 5:10; II Cor. 5:18-21). When Jesus fulfilled the first function of a priest, it was with a once and for all sacrifice, and He is no longer offering sacrifices. The second function of a priest was to intercede. That is what Yeshua is doing to the present day; He is interceding for us (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25). Because Yeshua did a once for all sacrifice, He is not sacrificing anymore, however, He is still interceding. He is no longer a sacrificing Priest, but an interceding Priest. He intercedes for believers and will continue to intercede until the Second Coming.
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The Book of Hebrews teaches eleven things about the Priesthood of Jesus. First, it was a Melchizedekian Priesthood, which meant that Yeshua could be both Priest and King (5:6; 6:19-20; 7:1-28). Secondly , the Priesthood of Jesus was sinless which was not true of the Levitical Priesthood (4:15). Thirdly, the Priesthood of Yeshua is eternal (7:25). Fourthly, the Priesthood of Jesus began at the cross (9:14; 12:24). Fifth, His Priesthood is not transitory (7:11-14), but immutable (7:20-22). Sixth, it is not temporary, but uninterrupted (7:23-25); He is going to hold it forever (7:15-19). Seventh, Yeshua clearly qualified for this office (1:3). Eighth, He was divinely appointed by God to this office (5:5-10). Ninth, His Priesthood is efficacious in that it will accomplish what it sets out to do, and that is to remove sin (10:4). Tenth, it will continue after the Ascension, and so continues to this day (4:14; 6:20; 8:1). And eleventh, it is an exalted Priesthood (9:14).
Today, Yeshua is fulfilling the function of Priest. Yeshua fulfilled both functions of the priesthood. First, in the area of sacrifice, He is both the sacrifice and the sacrificer (Heb. 9:11-15, 24-28; 10:12-14; I Cor. 5:7). The sacrifice of the Messiah accomplished three things: redemption (Rom. 3:24-25); propitiation (I Jn. 2:2); and reconciliation (Rom. 5:10; II Cor. 5:18-21). When Jesus fulfilled the first function of a priest, it was with a once and for all sacrifice, and He is no longer offering sacrifices. The second function of a priest was to intercede. That is what Yeshua is doing to the present day; He is interceding for us (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25). Because Yeshua did a once for all sacrifice, He is not sacrificing anymore, however, He is still interceding. He is no longer a sacrificing Priest, but an interceding Priest. He intercedes for believers and will continue to intercede until the Second Coming.
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You are missing my point completely. Those things that you wrote are all about His relationship with His people, Israel.
The body of Christ is not Israel. Our relationship with Christ is not based on any covenants or promises made to Israel. Paul makes this clear throughout his epistles. Paul never even once uses the word "priest" or "priesthood" in this epistles. That should be clear that we have no relationship in that way with Jesus Christ.
Paul describes the body of Christ in terms of "body parts" and not a religious hierarchy.
You mention the book of Hebrews as the only one to describes Jesus as a priest. The Book of Hebrews is really the Book TO Hebrews. Everything in it is related to the Hebrew people, Israel. It's all about better promises, a better covenant, etc. etc. It's all about the Hebrews (Israel).
Why would we think that there is "body of Christ" doctrine in a book to the Hebrews?
The NT church began on Pentecost after Jesus was resurrected. The NT church never had a first covenant. The covenant that Jesus established for the church is the only covenant the church has ever had.
The law is still in effect declaring men guilty and showing their need for a savior. Believers not being under the law, doesnt equal the end of the law - do you believe all the world is saved already?
If its not- then the law is still in effect.
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Wow.... confusion.
The NEW covenant replaces the OLD. That's why it called NEW. Otherwise it's just some OTHER covenant.
Jer 31:31-34 KJV
(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
(32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
(33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Clearly, the writer of Hebrews knows more about this than we do:
Heb 8:13 KJV
(13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
In the first sentence of Hebrews 8:13, it is clear that the NEW makes the FIRST OLD. How much MORE clear can it be that the SECOND (NEW) replaces the FIRST (OLD)?
There are 8 covenants God made with man. When God interacts with man in the following ways God is entering into a covenantal agreement with man. Here are the three covenants that are not made with Israel like the remaining five.
THE EDENIC COVENANT:
Scripture:
Genesis 1:28-30: And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.
Genesis 2:15-17: And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.
Hosea 6:7: But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
THE ADAMIC COVENANT:
Scripture:
Genesis 3:14-19 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life: and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you. And unto Adam he said, Because you have hearkened unto the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil shall you eat of it all the days of your life; thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you; and you shall eat the herb of the field; in the sweat of your face shall you eat bread, till you return unto the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return.
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THE EDENIC COVENANT:
Scripture:
Genesis 1:28-30: And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb yielding seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for food: and to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to everything that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for food: and it was so.
Genesis 2:15-17: And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day that you eat thereof you shall surely die.
Hosea 6:7: But they like Adam have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.
THE ADAMIC COVENANT:
Scripture:
Genesis 3:14-19 And Jehovah God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life: and I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain and your conception; in pain you shall bring forth children; and your desire shall be to your husband, and he shall rule over you. And unto Adam he said, Because you have hearkened unto the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree, of which I commanded you, saying, You shall not eat of it: cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil shall you eat of it all the days of your life; thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to you; and you shall eat the herb of the field; in the sweat of your face shall you eat bread, till you return unto the ground; for out of it were you taken: for dust you are, and unto dust shall you return.
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THE NOAHIC COVENANT
Scripture:
Genesis 9:1-17 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; with all wherewith the ground teems, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; as the green herb have I given you all. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it: and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that go out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of the flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
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Scripture:
Genesis 9:1-17 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every bird of the heavens; with all wherewith the ground teems, and all the fishes of the sea, into your hand are they delivered. Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; as the green herb have I given you all. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. And surely your blood, the blood of your lives, will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it: and at the hand of man, even at the hand of every man's brother, will I require the life of man. Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein. And God spoke unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying, And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you; and with every living creature that is with you, the birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you; of all that go out of the ark, even every beast of the earth. And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of the flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth. And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, and I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
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What's your point intojoy?
Hi. Many Christians think in terms of just two covenants. This is the product of unworthy scholarship in my observation. I am trying to understand your thinking of total separation from Israel.
I do not adhere to replacement theology just like you however I see gentile salvation as part of the salvation of the Jews. If what you are saying is true that we are not included in the Jer 31:31 Covenant then where do Gentiles get saved? I'd like to understand you better.
My point about the 5 Jewish Covenants is that the writer to the Hebrews pointed out that it was temporal from its planning by God. I have a iPhone issue and can't see my type... More later
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I do not adhere to replacement theology just like you however I see gentile salvation as part of the salvation of the Jews. If what you are saying is true that we are not included in the Jer 31:31 Covenant then where do Gentiles get saved? I'd like to understand you better.
My point about the 5 Jewish Covenants is that the writer to the Hebrews pointed out that it was temporal from its planning by God. I have a iPhone issue and can't see my type... More later
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My teaching is that God in narrowing down the Seed Son of Eve after chapter 12 of Genesis has dealt with humanity on the basis of the Jewish Covenants. It is my observation that not many people were saved among the Gentiles from Gen 12 all the way until the book of Acts. If there were any Gentiles saved they were saved by grace thru faith in what had been revealed to man up until their point in history. No gentile as Gentiles were under the Mosaic Covenant of 613 commandments not just ten. The Gentiles who proselyted into the common wealth of Israel were under that Law but not many did. And further more if they did submit themselves under the 613 commandments of the Mosaic C, it was not to produce righteousness nor in order to be saved, it was merely the rule of life for the saved person BC.
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Hi , and I see Israel with much prophecy , yet to be fulfilled !
Israel is Israel and the Body of Christ is separate from Israel !
As Gen 1:1 says , He made the Heaven and the Earth , 2 separate spheres , Israel and the Body !
In Acts 10 , Cornelius became a Jew !
Any Jew saved today is Placed into the Body of Christ and as Gal 3:28 says , in the Body there is neither Male nor Female !!
I do not believe that we are included in Jer 31:31 or in Ezek 36:24-38 !
Eph 2:12 excludes us from the New Covenant !!
dan p
remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. (Ephesians 2:12 NASB)
Ok Dan I see what you are saying here. Your correct in that the New Cov is not made with the Gentiles. But it has been extended to the believing body of Christ -Jew and gentile because that which caused the wall of separation (the Mosaic Covenant) the Law is no longer in effect and has been broken down. In my observation the New Cov can be a Jewish Covenant made exclusively with Israel and still be access alb to humanity in general. Even the Mosaic Covenant was inclusive for gentile converts. The land Covenant and the Davidic Covenant are not access alb by Gentiles but the Anrahamiv and New are.
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Ok Dan I see what you are saying here. Your correct in that the New Cov is not made with the Gentiles. But it has been extended to the believing body of Christ -Jew and gentile because that which caused the wall of separation (the Mosaic Covenant) the Law is no longer in effect and has been broken down. In my observation the New Cov can be a Jewish Covenant made exclusively with Israel and still be access alb to humanity in general. Even the Mosaic Covenant was inclusive for gentile converts. The land Covenant and the Davidic Covenant are not access alb by Gentiles but the Anrahamiv and New are.
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Yes, the new covenant with Israel replaces the old covenant with Israel. How are you relating that to the church?
Hi , and it is when Jesus died on the Cross !
Heb 9:15 shows that Jesus paid for over 1600 years of Sin Sacrifices of the Jews !
Satan was also Judged at the Cross , but Judgment will come at Rev 20:10 !
All sins were Judged at the Cross and approx 40 years later Israel was set aside !
Many should notice that after Acts 15 we do not hear of Peter at all , WHY //
James had taken over , ( Acts 21:21 ) and Peter Fades from the scene
Luke 13:6-9 reveals why Israel was set aside !
Israel will be Judged at the end of the Great Tribulation and this where the Wheat and Tares have meaning , more can be said but I am tired !! Matt 25 !!
This is why the RCC have Substituted many Man-made Myths and taken over the Jewish faith and can not even keep the 613 Laws of Moses and are easy to defeat , scriptually !!
dan p
So what you're saying is that none of the Messianic Christology of the OT can be appropriated to the Gengiles? That's an over simifucation to me.
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Hi , and at this present time , I see that the Gentiles sheep nations of Matt 25 being saved in the Millennium by the Grafting of the Olive Tree in Rom 11 :20-24 !
By Matt 25 , these Gentile sheep people will be in the Millennial Kingdom with Israel , so how will they be saved as the Body of Christ will not be there !!
dan p