Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

[heir]

You again attempt to change the subject. The discussion was in regard to whether or not the Twelve were in the Body of Christ.

Question: How can the twelve be in the Body of Christ when they haven't received their day of atonement yet as those in the Body NOW have?

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

VS.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Answer: They can't be.

 

[heir]

Once again you fail to even attempt to deal with what I said.

I am under no obligation to answer anything that you ask. Who do you think you are? I chime in when I want and discuss what I want. I will use your posts to show the truth from your lies.

I know that those at Corinth who trusted the Lord for salvation believing the gospel of Christ that Paul received and declared are in the Body of Christ. Everyone else is OUTSIDE the one Body.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You can't show where Peter preached or believed the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ is the ONLY WAY to enter the one Body of Christ and be baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). IT (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Why do you continue to IGNORE this fact? Deal with IT

Why do we need Peter to tell us that, especially since we have the Lord Jesus saying the following to the Jews who lived under the Law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The Lord Jesus also said this to the Jews who lived under the Law:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

For some reason you just refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the Law.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I am under no obligation to answer anything that you ask.

No, you are not. But you lose any credibility which you might ever have had on this subject by just refusing to address passages from the Bible that seem to contradict your assertions.

So far all I have seen from you is an effort to avoid dealing verses which contradict your ideas.

 

[heir]

Why do we need Peter to tell us that,

Because if the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (and it is) then in order for Peter to be in the one Body he would have needed to have trusted the Lord believing IT to be saved! HE DIDN'T trust the Lord believing Paul's my gospel for salvation. He didn't even know it until Paul went up by revelation to communicate unto then that gospel that Paul preached among the Gentiles! Peter would still preach the gospel of the circumcision (that which he preached in Acts 2).

 

[heir]

No, you are not.

That's right. You don't have dominion over my faith.

 

[heir]

These wrong dividers gospel doesn't have the power to save anyone today. They don't preach the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Their gospel is powerless. There's no blood in their gospel.

 

[heir]

They want to go on and on about the WHO of Jesus Christ , but they ignore the WHAT of the cross. They are on the sidelines. They are not committed to the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Question: How can the twelve be in the Body of Christ when they haven't received their day of atonement yet as those in the Body NOW have?

Are you under the impression that individual Jews have not received the benefits of the atonement, even though the lord Jesus said the following to the woman who had anointed His feet with oil:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

Are we supposed to believe that Peter had not received the benefits which flow from the atonement, especially since he said the following?:

"And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith" (Acts 15:8-9).​

According to your mistaken ideas Peter and the rest of the Jewish believers had not yet received the benefits of the atonement but yet they were given the Holy Ghost!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You can't show where Peter preached or believed the gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Trusting the Lord believing the gospel of Christ is the ONLY WAY to enter the one Body of Christ and be baptized by one Spirit into one Body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV). IT (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Why do you continue to IGNORE this fact? Deal with IT

Why do we need Peter to tell us that, especially since we have the Lord Jesus saying the following to the Jews who lived under the Law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The Lord Jesus also said this to the Jews who lived under the Law:

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

For some reason you just refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the Law.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

That's right. You don't have dominion over my faith.

I want nothing to do with your lack of faith. You just refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the Law.

 

[heir]

Are you under the impression that individual Jews have not received the benefits of the atonement,

As I have posted over and over: Peter preached and believed that Israel's sins will be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. That's the second coming.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The apostle Paul confirms it in Romans (written Acts 20).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

It is future for them!

 

[heir]

I want nothing to do with your lack of faith.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

 

[heir]

Why do we need Peter to tell us that,

You are the one wanting Peter in the one Body, but no one enters the Body WITHOUT trusting the Lord for salvation believing the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Peter's not in the Body. He's OUT.

 

[heir]

You just refuse to believe what the Lord Jesus said to the Jews who lived under the Law.

I know what He said to them. He told them they had to endure to the end to be saved.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

[Bright Raven]

1 Peter 1:18-21 King James Version (KJV)

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What makes you think that Peter is not in the body? Was he saved? Just asking.

 

[heir]

What makes you think that Peter is not in the body? Was he saved? Just asking.

He didn't believe he was saved yet.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

 

[heir]

Was he saved? Just asking.

Peter will be saved when Israel will be saved. It's at the second coming of the Lord.


Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

 

[heir]

You again attempt to change the subject. The discussion was in regard to whether or not the Twelve were in the Body of Christ.

Paul's my gospel is that which stablishes a believer into the Body of Christ (Romans 16:25-26 KJV).

Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.


Peter and the boys did not trust the Lord believing it (the gospel of Christ 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) for salvation. It has been shown over and over that their salvation is future.

Peter and the boys sins are not blotted out until the second coming yet the Body of Christ has now received the atonement.

Peter and the boys have a different gospel, doctrine, requirements, duty and destination than that of the Body of Christ.

I believe this is enough to conclude that they are NOT in the Body of Christ.

And let's not forget, the Body began with Paul, not Peter.

1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

 

[Dialogos]

:mock: those who rely on the word of men

Do you think the KJV plopped strait out of heaven in Elizabethan English straight onto the desk of King James?


:chuckle:

The NKJV works from the exact same source texts as the KJV and is far more faithful in translating, in part, because it did not have to balance accurate translation with the compulsion to please a politically motivated king who superintended the whole endeavor.

In short. the KJV, as a state translation commissioned by a politically motivated king for the church of England and is more the "words of men" than any of the modern translations that came after it.