Theology Club: Is MAD doctrine correct?

godrulz

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It does not. The Lord Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, lived a perefect life your place. He was crucified for your sin, and raised for you. You were reconciled back to God by his death, and receive is life when you believe. The message does not change.

Paul went to Jews first, and preached the same to the gentiles. You claim there was a barracade around the ministry, and have not said why. Because you are false.

Exactly. There is one gospel preached to Jews, Gentiles, Muslims, atheists, Mormons, etc. You are the one with a specious two gospel theory for a limited time/group (not found in Scripture). My point of contextualizing the gospel does stand and if you deny that you have no clue about missions and evangelism.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
:doh:

It means exactly what it says.

However, we can see by Acts 10 that there was a time frame for going to Israel first and then to Gentiles, else Peter would not have needed prompting from God to go ahead and accept the invitation from Cornelius and go to his home and lead them to receive Christ.


Wait, so you're arguing that they weren't ever meant to go to Gentiles?


According to the lexicon I used it means any number of things, and in this instance it was translated as "nations."

Why do you argue that it doesn't mean "all nations"?


And , I gave you one example !! Did not read it ??

ETHNOS , can be translated by Gentiles, Nation , race , Heathen and also by Jewish Nation !!

I have just posted what I see in Matt 28:19 and 20 !!

dan p
 

Lighthouse

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And , I gave you one example !! Did not read it ??

ETHNOS , can be translated by Gentiles, Nation , race , Heathen and also by Jewish Nation !!

I have just posted what I see in Matt 28:19 and 20 !!

dan p
Ignoring the scatterbrained format of the above I will say that I did read the OP of the thread you started on the subject.

I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus was telling the 12 to teach the commandments. That's not the issue here. The issue is that while the 12 were commanded thus, Paul was not; the 12 were sent to baptize, Paul was not. These are things upon which you and I agree.

My argument with godrulz hinges on his denial that Paul was given a different message, etc. when it is clear that Paul was commanded to preach and do things differently than the 12.
 

Bright Raven

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Ignoring the scatterbrained format of the above I will say that I did read the OP of the thread you started on the subject.

I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus was telling the 12 to teach the commandments. That's not the issue here. The issue is that while the 12 were commanded thus, Paul was not; the 12 were sent to baptize, Paul was not. These are things upon which you and I agree.

My argument with godrulz hinges on his denial that Paul was given a different message, etc. when it is clear that Paul was commanded to preach and do things differently than the 12.

And it is a message that godrulz needs to rethink.
 

godrulz

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And , I gave you one example !! Did not read it ??

ETHNOS , can be translated by Gentiles, Nation , race , Heathen and also by Jewish Nation !!

I have just posted what I see in Matt 28:19 and 20 !!

dan p

Words have a semantical range of meaning. The translators were right to go with nations, not Jews, etc. based on context, etc. Change your view to match the Bible, not the other way around.
 

godrulz

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Ignoring the scatterbrained format of the above I will say that I did read the OP of the thread you started on the subject.

I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus was telling the 12 to teach the commandments. That's not the issue here. The issue is that while the 12 were commanded thus, Paul was not; the 12 were sent to baptize, Paul was not. These are things upon which you and I agree.

My argument with godrulz hinges on his denial that Paul was given a different message, etc. when it is clear that Paul was commanded to preach and do things differently than the 12.

My beef is with post-cross issues, not early Gospels vs Acts 2 ff.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Ignoring the scatterbrained format of the above I will say that I did read the OP of the thread you started on the subject.

I agree wholeheartedly that Jesus was telling the 12 to teach the commandments. That's not the issue here. The issue is that while the 12 were commanded thus, Paul was not; the 12 were sent to baptize, Paul was not. These are things upon which you and I agree.

My argument with godrulz hinges on his denial that Paul was given a different message, etc. when it is clear that Paul was commanded to preach and do things differently than the 12.


Scattered brain you say !!

Try this ??

#1 , Do you see Jewish people preaching Matt 28:19 and 20 ??

#2 , Where have you LATELY seen Jewish Priests BAPTIZING Gentiles ??

#3 , Where would these Jewish PROSELYTES go to , a Jewish Assembly or the Body of Christ which has already DEPARTED !!

Are these questions TO SCATTERED BRAINED for you , but you have a better answer ??

dan p
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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Scattered brain you say !!
Just the format. Maybe you should learn to read?

Try this ??

#1 , Do you see Jewish people preaching Matt 28:19 and 20 ??

#2 , Where have you LATELY seen Jewish Priests BAPTIZING Gentiles ??

#3 , Where would these Jewish PROSELYTES go to , a Jewish Assembly or the Body of Christ which has already DEPARTED !!

Are these questions TO SCATTERED BRAINED for you , but you have a better answer ??

dan p
:doh:

Anyone who believes The Great Commission is in effect for them should be preaching the commandments, and baptizing any converts they make. They then should consider themselves under the law.

The Great Commission is not, and never was, for the Body of Christ.

How many times do I have to point out to you that I am MAD?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Just the format. Maybe you should learn to read?


:doh:

Anyone who believes The Great Commission is in effect for them should be preaching the commandments, and baptizing any converts they make. They then should consider themselves under the law.

The Great Commission is not, and never was, for the Body of Christ.

How many times do I have to point out to you that I am MAD?


And you believe that NATIONS/ETHNOS Matt 28:19 means GENTILES ??

YES or NO ??

DAN P
 

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
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Just the format. Maybe you should learn to read?


:doh:

Anyone who believes The Great Commission is in effect for them should be preaching the commandments, and baptizing any converts they make. They then should consider themselves under the law.

The Great Commission is not, and never was, for the Body of Christ.

How many times do I have to point out to you that I am MAD?
I am going to try and keep updating my earlier post to see if some definitive list of key points can be constructed.

AMR
 

godrulz

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Great Commission: Post-Cross
Acts 2:38: Post-Cross

Why the difference in Paul's message and directive?

I dispute that Paul taught something different. The gospel is the person and work of Christ, not either/or, but both/and.

MAD proof texts I Cor. 1 wrong. It is not a negation of baptism that Paul supported. I Cor. 11 is not a denial of communion that Paul supported. I Tim. does not teach that Paul was the first sinner, first convert to Christianity, etc.

Paul fleshed things out differently and in greater doctrinal detail, but the death and resurrection of Lord Jesus is common pre and post Paul, post-cross.
 

godrulz

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Just the format. Maybe you should learn to read?


:doh:

Anyone who believes The Great Commission is in effect for them should be preaching the commandments, and baptizing any converts they make. They then should consider themselves under the law.

The Great Commission is not, and never was, for the Body of Christ.

How many times do I have to point out to you that I am MAD?

The problem is your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the GC texts. MAD has warped it beyond recognition.

You are begging the question and missing the point (be aware that Mark 16 is a problematic ending that likely does not belong).
 

DAN P

Well-known member
The problem is your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the GC texts. MAD has warped it beyond recognition.

You are begging the question and missing the point (be aware that Mark 16 is a problematic ending that likely does not belong).



Hi , and where is the verse that Acts 2 , believers say the Body of Christ , Began ??

Post #9 , proves that what Paul and Peter preached were different , nor have proven wrong the Perfect Tense NOR the Greek Articles ( THE ) that are used in Gal 2:7 !!

DAN P
 

Lighthouse

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And you believe that NATIONS/ETHNOS Matt 28:19 means GENTILES ??

YES or NO ??

DAN P
So far I have no reason to believe they were not included, but I do not believe it was Gentiles exclusively. I believe "all nations" means all nations.

Can you give me a reason to think otherwise?

I dispute that Paul taught something different. The gospel is the person and work of Christ, not either/or, but both/and.
I know what you dispute, and I know you can't back it up; you refuse to answer why the 12 were sent to baptize and Paul was not, for instance. Or why the 12 were commanded to teach all things Jesus had commanded them and Paul was not.

MAD proof texts I Cor. 1 wrong. It is not a negation of baptism that Paul supported. I Cor. 11 is not a denial of communion that Paul supported. I Tim. does not teach that Paul was the first sinner, first convert to Christianity, etc.
:bang:

It's not about whether or not baptism is okay, but the fact that the 12 were commanded to do so and Paul was not.

Paul fleshed things out differently and in greater doctrinal detail, but the death and resurrection of Lord Jesus is common pre and post Paul, post-cross.
fishes120.gif


The problem is your misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the GC texts. MAD has warped it beyond recognition.
Then explain it to me. What does it really mean?

You are begging the question and missing the point (be aware that Mark 16 is a problematic ending that likely does not belong).
Oh, really? Then why did you bring it up, since no one else did?
 

DAN P

Well-known member
So far I have no reason to believe they were not included, but I do not believe it was Gentiles exclusively. I believe "all nations" means all nations.

Can you give me a reason to think otherwise?


Hi , and Matt 28:20 , proves that Baptiam will again be preached and verse 20 says that they will be taught all that the Jesus commanded them .

Your problem is , when does that Happen ??

#1 , During the Great Tribulation ??

#2 , Or , during the Millennium ??

#3 , The Jews have to be reached and we are not reaching them at all !!

I opt for the Great Tribulation , when the 144,000 preach and reach their Jewish brethren with Mark 16:15-18 !!

The Millennium is where Gentiles will be Grafted into the Olive Tree , in Rom 11 !!

dan p
 

Lighthouse

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Hi , and Matt 28:20 , proves that Baptiam will again be preached and verse 20 says that they will be taught all that the Jesus commanded them .

Your problem is , when does that Happen ??

#1 , During the Great Tribulation ??

#2 , Or , during the Millennium ??

#3 , The Jews have to be reached and we are not reaching them at all !!

I opt for the Great Tribulation , when the 144,000 preach and reach their Jewish brethren with Mark 16:15-18 !!

The Millennium is where Gentiles will be Grafted into the Olive Tree , in Rom 11 !!

dan p
It was supposed to happen when they moved beyond the Jews, but that plan was put on hold for the Body, because Israel did not bear the fruit God wanted within the time frame.

That plan will resume when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in; which leads into the Tribulation, followed by the Great Tribulation [the last 3 1/2 years].
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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I know what you dispute, and I know you can't back it up; you refuse to answer why the 12 were sent to baptize and Paul was not, for instance. Or why the 12 were commanded to teach all things Jesus had commanded them and Paul was not.

:up: Because there is more than one piece of good news (gospel) in the New Testament.
 

Paulos

New member
I know what you dispute, and I know you can't back it up; you refuse to answer why the 12 were sent to baptize and Paul was not, for instance. Or why the 12 were commanded to teach all things Jesus had commanded them and Paul was not.

It's not about whether or not baptism is okay, but the fact that the 12 were commanded to do so and Paul was not.

Acts 10:48 shows that Peter did not do the baptizing himself; he instructed the brethren from Joppa (Acts 10:23) to do it.

In the early Church, new conversions were happening by the scores. The apostles would not have had time to baptize all these people themselves, so they appointed deacons to baptize for them. That is why Paul says he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). But this does not mean that water baptism had no part in Paul's gospel. On the contrary, Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly taught water baptism:

Acts 16:14-15
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16:28-33
28 Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.” 29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Acts 18:5, 8
Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ...And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Acts 19:4-5
Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.​

Paul did not always perform water baptisms personally, but he clearly taught the practice of water baptism.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Acts 10:48 shows that Peter did not do the baptizing himself; he instructed the brethren from Joppa (Acts 10:23) to do it.

In the early Church, new conversions were happening by the scores. The apostles would not have had time to baptize all these people themselves, so they appointed deacons to baptize for them. That is why Paul says he was not sent to baptize (1 Cor 1:17). But this does not mean that water baptism had no part in Paul's gospel. On the contrary, Paul was water baptized himself (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and Paul clearly taught water baptism:

Acts 16:14-15
And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul. And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.

Acts 16:28-33
28 Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.” 29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.

Acts 18:5, 8
Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ...And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.

Acts 19:4-5
Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.​

Paul did not always perform water baptisms personally, but he clearly taught the practice of water baptism.


Hi , and I have to disagree with you that Paul BAPTIZED >

As soon as I catch up I will do AN OP AS TO WHY NOT !!

Where is a verse where Paul TAUGHT the practice of Baptism ??

DAN P
 
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