Theology Club: WHO is the Bride of Christ ??

DAN P

Well-known member
Hi to all , and there are many who say that they are Dispensationalist who say that the all BELIEVERS are the BRIDE of CHRIST !!

Of course , the so-called Acts 2 , BELIEVERS include and say that all are in the Bride of Christ , since there is ONLY one Gospel !!

I DO NOT hold , that we are all the Bride of Christ and am prepared to Defense as to why not !!

Give a verse ??

What say you ??

dan p
 

Eeset

.
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus was quite explicit that in heaven they are neither given nor taken in marriage but are as angels.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Jesus was quite explicit that in heaven they are neither given nor taken in marriage but are as angels.


Hi , and a EXCELLANT answer as Gal 3:28 , says that we are neither MALE nor FEMALE , in the body of Christ .

Though , I use the Greek to explain , you have given a powerful answer as to why we will never be a Blushing Bride as we are a part of Christ or " in Christ " !!

We are in the minority , but we are right !!

dan p
 

OMEGA

New member
Well, I know that Adam was Black and his wife was White
so here full name must have been Eve Snowhite.

And we know that Noah's wife was Joan Ofark.:chuckle:

So, the Bride of Christ must be Holly Election
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Well, I know that Adam was Black and his wife was White
so here full name must have been Eve Snowhite.

And we know that Noah's wife was Joan Ofark.:chuckle:

So, the Bride of Christ must be Holly Election


Hi , and I will not ask where the verses are for your post !!

So , moving on !!

dan p
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
I haven't done a lot of study on this specific topic, and to be frank, I'm not even sure, based on a few of the responses that have been given already, that I even understand for sure what the intended topic is supposed to be, BUT, as asked in the opening post, it would seem to me that it is the nation of Israel, and more specifically, Jews who either believed during the Dispensation of Law or who will believe during the Tribulation period (a.k.a. the continuation and final seven years of that Dispensation) who are the Bride of Christ.

We, on the other hand, who have beleived during the Dispensation of Grace are the Body of Christ.

Now, while this is generally the case, there is some confusion on the issue because of Eph. 5 where Paul plainly states that "the church" is Christ's wife...

Eph. 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.​

So, who is "the church"?

Some say ALL believers. They could be right! I frankly don't know. Like I said, I haven't studied this issue out in any detail. I look forward to seeing whether anyone here can make a convincing case for a decisive answer to that question.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Clete;3So said:
Hi , and one thing that I have found is that EKKLESIA /ASSEBMLY does not means CHURCH !!

EK , means Out !!

KLESIS means a calling !!

So , EKKLESIA means a called out Aseembly !!

The RCC and its followers are trying to co-opt CHURCH to mean that THEY are the only CHURCH and only they can say what the bible means to say !!

Israel is a called out EKKLESIA /ASSEMBLY from Egypt !!

The Body of Christ is also an EKKLESIA /ASSEMBLY that are mostly GENTILES and s sprinkling of Jews , Gal 3:28 .

I will have to leave early today and will answer your Eph 5 , passage tomorrow ,

dan p
 
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Clete

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Silver Subscriber
Just as an aside....

The most irrational interpretation of the word Ekklesia I have ever been exposed to is the notion that the term refers to and ONLY to your local church. That is to say that, in so far as you as an individual believer are concerned, your local church that you are a member of is THE Body of Christ.

I call it the million bodies of Christ theory. Here's a link to a full length exposition of the doctrine (which is held, so far as I know, only by Independent Baptist Churches)...


The Universal Church Theory - WEIGHED IN THE BALANCES AND FOUND WANTING

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Good topic!

I believe there is good reason to perceive Israel as the bride, and grace believers as the body.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Just as an aside....

The most irrational interpretation of the word Ekklesia I have ever been exposed to is the notion that the term refers to and ONLY to your local church. That is to say that, in so far as you as an individual believer are concerned, your local church that you are a member of is THE Body of Christ.

I call it the million bodies of Christ theory. Here's a link to a full length exposition of the doctrine (which is held, so far as I know, only by Independent Baptist Churches)...


The Universal Church Theory - WEIGHED IN THE BALANCES AND FOUND WANTING

Resting in Him,
Clete


Hi , and even in my Assembly , everyone read and says CHURCH .

It has so been ingrained into to all , that EKKLESIA means church , and will never change !!

Most believe in One Church and One Gospel !!

dan p
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Good topic!

I believe there is good reason to perceive Israel as the bride, and grace believers as the body.


Hi , and even some dispensationalist believe that the Body of Christ and Israel are now the same !!

Most believers can not see that Israel and the Body of Christ are separate and distinct and with different HOPES !!

DAN P
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Hi , and even some dispensationalist believe that the Body of Christ and Israel are now the same !!

Most believers can not see that Israel and the Body of Christ are separate and distinct and with different HOPES !!

DAN P

Dan,

How do you understand the rest of the Eph. 5 passage concerning the the bride, the church, the Body, etc.

Do you believe as I do, that Paul is intentionally drawing a distinction between the church and the Body in verse 23?

If so, what are your views on who makes up which group?

Clete
 

Sherman

I identify as a Christian
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Hall of Fame
Hi to all , and there are many who say that they are Dispensationalist who say that the all BELIEVERS are the BRIDE of CHRIST !!
dan p

The Bride is Israel. All through the Bible the bride metaphors refer to Israel.

The Body is the Church. The Bride and the Body are two distinct separate entities in Scripture.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
The Bride is Israel. All through the Bible the bride metaphors refer to Israel.

The Body is the Church. The Bride and the Body are two distinct separate entities in Scripture.


Hi , and you agree , but thro out numbered , many have not read John 3:29 !!

dan p
 

surrender

New member
Hi , and even some dispensationalist believe that the Body of Christ and Israel are now the same !!

Most believers can not see that Israel and the Body of Christ are separate and distinct and with different HOPES !!

DAN P
If one has put their "hope" in the very few details of the next age found in Scripture, rather than in God Himself, then one's hope is misplaced.

Those with faith in the God of Messiah Jesus (whether Jew, Gentile, "nation of Israel," whatever you want to label it) have the same hope. He IS our hope. If you've missed that, you've missed too much.
 

surrender

New member
The Bride is Israel. All through the Bible the bride metaphors refer to Israel.

The Body is the Church. The Bride and the Body are two distinct separate entities in Scripture.
So we're going to marry Israel? Well, then, what's all this talk about Israel and the Body being distinct with "two separate hopes" and all that? If we get married, we'll be ONE.
 

surrender

New member
Dan,

How do you understand the rest of the Eph. 5 passage concerning the the bride, the church, the Body, etc.

Do you believe as I do, that Paul is intentionally drawing a distinction between the church and the Body in verse 23?

If so, what are your views on who makes up which group?

Clete
Colossians 1:24 says that the church and body are the same.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
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So we're going to marry Israel? Well, then, what's all this talk about Israel and the Body being distinct with "two separate hopes" and all that? If we get married, we'll be ONE.

Nobody is. It is a metaphor for the Lord Jesus Christ ruling from Jerusalem over his people. Israel = God's people. That is just my opinion. For a more informed rendering, see below.

Bob Hill said:
I will attempt to prove that the bride of Christ is not the body of Christ. In fact, the bride of Christ is not even a biblical term. The Bible Knowledge Commentary says in comments on Mat 25:41, “With all wickedness removed in the various judgments at the Second Advent, the kingdom will begin on earth with only saved individuals in physical bodies constituting the earthly kingdom as the King’s subjects. Glorified saints from Old Testament times and the church, the bride of Christ, will also be present to share in the reign of the King of kings.” Then, in commenting on 2nd John, they wrote, “The personification of nations and cities as female personages is common in the Bible (cf. “the daughter of Zion”), and the Christian church is often referred to as ‘the bride of Christ’ (cf. Eph. 5:22-33; 2 Cor. 11:2; Rev. 19:7).”

Let’s read Rev 19:5-9: “Then a voice came from the throne, saying, ‘Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both small and great!’ 6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, ‘Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.’ 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9 Then he said to me, ‘Write: “Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!” And he said to me, “These are the true sayings of God.”’” Notice, it’s the Lamb’s wife, not the bride of Christ. The Lamb’s wife is associated with Israel as we can see in Rev 21:2 “Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”

It becomes very apparent that the Lamb’s wife is closely related to Israel in Rev 21:9-27 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he who talked with me had a gold reed to measure the city, its gates, and its wall. 16 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed: twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal. 17 Then he measured its wall: one hundred and forty-four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel. 18 The construction of its wall was of jasper; and the city was pure gold, like clear glass. 19 The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all kinds of precious stones: the first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth sardonyx, the sixth sardius, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls: each individual gate was of one pearl. And the street of the city was pure gold, like transparent glass. 22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there). 26 And they shall bring the glory and the honor of the nations into it. 27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

To see how closely the “the great city, the holy Jerusalem” is linked with Israel, we must read Mat 19:28 “So Jesus said to them, ‘Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’” and Luke 22:28-30 “But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

Some have attempted to use Rom 7:4-6 to show the body of Christ is the bride of Christ, Rom 7:4-6 “Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another; to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.”, but the word married is the Greek word [genesqai to become] to another.

Another passage is 2 Co 11:2: “For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” Here, Paul a member of the body of Christ betroths them to one husband. Yet Paul was a member of the body. That doesn’t make sense.

Another passage that is used uses marriage as illustration, but that doesn’t make the church the bride of Christ. Eph 5:25-32, “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. 28 So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. 30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”

The bride the Lamb’s wife is very closely tied to Israel. We don’t need to steal any blessings from Israel. We are already His body.

Bold is my emphasis. The gospel of grace is not found in the four gospels. Only a ministry to Israel, as the Lord Jesus Christ clearly lays out. You are not a part of his teachings there. You will not rule over the 12 tribes, no matter how hard you try to spin his teaching. In fact, if you try and spin his teaching you are outside the faith (according to our apostle, Paul) and will be cut off and tossed in the fire. For your false gospel. His words.
 

surrender

New member
Nobody is. It is a metaphor for the Lord Jesus Christ ruling from Jerusalem over his people. Israel = God's people. That is just my opinion. For a more informed rendering, see below.
If the marriage metaphor simply means that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem over his people, then we will rule from Jerusalem over his people, for we ARE his body. I’m not saying that this is what will happen, but if you’re right about the metaphor then this is also would be true.

Bold is my emphasis. The gospel of grace is not found in the four gospels. Only a ministry to Israel, as the Lord Jesus Christ clearly lays out.
God is full of grace and mercy, always. However you want to distinguish between what was revealed to the early disciples and Paul, it is ALL grace. Without God’s grace, there is no good news. In other words, the “gospel of the kingdom” is based on God’s grace.

You are not a part of his teachings there. You will not rule over the 12 tribes, no matter how hard you try to spin his teaching.
I really don’t know what the next age will look like. There are very few details. But if you’re right about the metaphor, then it seems to me you’re saying we will rule over Israel, since WE are Jesus’ body.

In fact, if you try and spin his teaching you are outside the faith (according to our apostle, Paul) and will be cut off and tossed in the fire. For your false gospel. His words.
Oh brother! I’ll be tossed in the fire for misunderstanding a couple details about what’s to come in the next age. How absurd.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Dan,

How do you understand the rest of the Eph. 5 passage concerning the the bride, the church, the Body, etc.

Do you believe as I do, that Paul is intentionally drawing a distinction between the church and the Body in verse 23?

If so, what are your views on who makes up which group?

Clete



Hi , and here is a literal translation of Eph 5:23 !!

" Because the husband is head of of the wife , as also Christ HEAD of the EKKLESIA / ASSEMBLY , and He is the Saviour of the BODY ".

I see a contrast , first of a man and woman being ONE with the man in a leadership role !!

Then , Christ is the HEAD of the EKKLESIA /ASSEMBLY !!

He " IS " , is in the Present tense , which means CONTINUING for all time !!

Since " IS " , is in the Greek Pensent Tense , we are always " in Christ " which means OSAS !!

dan p
 
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