You answer my question first.
Theology Club: ARE THE 12 APOSTLES IN or OUT of the Body of Christ ??
- Thread starter DAN P
- Start date
Hi , and I would if you answer the OP , FIRST ??
You are not in a position to make any demands of me , as you have not had any OP , NOR show any grasping of Pauline truth to me !!
dan p
LOL…here we go again. I did answer your OP! You certainly are something. Your OP, in case you’ve forgotten is: “Are the 12 apostles in or out of the body of Christ?”
I answered your OP in post #33 and post #35:
#33:
Paul tells us that when we partake of the one bread, we are one body (1 Cor. 10:17). See also 1 Cor. 12:13 and Eph. 2:16.
"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).
This means that anyone who eats/partakes of Christ is part of the one body. The twelve disciples ate of "this bread" and therefore are part of the "one body."
#35
Israel (i.e. the 12 disciples & the circumcision to whom they ministered, in other words, remnant Israel) is part of the Body of Christ because they eat of the one bread, which is Christ, and we are told that those who eat of this one Bread are one body (1 Cor. 10:17).
Gentiles, although not part of Israel, partake in the covenant blessings of Israel—they are grafted into the rich root (Rom. 11:17)—through the Body of Christ.
Although Paul ministered to the uncircumcision, Paul, too, is part of remnant Israel (Rom. 11:1, 5). This means Paul, although part of the Body of Christ, is also part of Israel. If we could picture one big circle as the Body of Christ, I’d put Israel (remnant Israel) in the middle and Gentiles in the middle. We’re all part of the one Body by eating the one Bread, but Israel remains Israel and Gentiles remain Gentiles.
YOUR TURN! What are the terms? What is one saved by in the kingdom group?
Hi , and the 12 did not know what the Body of Christ is , until they came into contact with Paul , and you do not yet understand that !!
Israel is all Jewish !!
The Body of Christ was not made known in the Gospels and in the Body , all lose their INDENTITY " in Christ " and that means no Jews or Gentiles or Male or Female !!
What is is about Gal 3:28 that you do not understand ??
dan p
So? It was a year after I was saved that I understood what the Body of Christ was. Does one have to understand what it is before the Spirit is able to baptize you into it? Are we saved by faith + understand the body of Christ?
Well, there are converted Gentiles, too (i.e. proselytes).
So, you’re no longer a male? Surely, you haven’t become a female. Are you neutered, like a dog? Are you now androgynous? Do you see how absurd this becomes when you take the metaphor too literally? You are still a male in the body of Christ. When I meet you in the next age, I will not see the face of a genderless being, I will see a man. No, no, no, Dan, you don’t literally become “unmale.” The point Paul is making in Gal 3:28 is that we all come to God the same way—through Christ.
Still waiting. What are the terms? What is one saved by in the kingdom group?
Hi , and here is a literal translation of Gal 3:28 that you refuse to believe !!
Gal 3:28 , There can nor be Jew nor Greek , there can not be slave or free , THERE CAN NOT BE MALE AND FEMALE for you are One " in Christ " Jesus !!
#1 , Only Paul developes the PHRASE " IN CHRIST " THE ONLY ONE !!
#2 , No , one in the Gospel nor the 12 write about " in Christ " to my knowledge !!
#3 , In the Body of Christ we all lose our Identity as Gal 3:28 , which you refuse to believe as you have the right to believe what you want !!
Will you explain Gal 3:28 and what Male and Female mean ??
dan p
Do you believe you’re genderless? Yes or No
If you look at my post that you supposedly read, you will see the answer to this question.
Hi , and Gal 3:28 , neither MALE or FEMALE there should be no question !!
If you will not respond to the OP , I see your dilemma !!
dan p
Hi , and IF the 12 are in the Body of Christ , it is impossible for the 12 apostles to remain Jews as " in Christ " no one is Jews or GENTILES bond or free , but neither are they MALE or FEMALE , for then Jews will not be Jews and there will be no Millennial Kingdom !!
dan p
Hi , and 1 Cor 15:8 , explains to very important things !!
#1 , " And last of all He was seen by me also , as if it was an Untimely Birth ".
#2 , The KJV , has it " as of one Born out of Due time ".
#3 , There was only ONE that born out of due time , and it was Saul !!
#4 , So , if Saul was born out of due time !! who will be born " in due time ??
#5 , It is Israel that will be " born in due time ".
#6 , Israel will be " born again " at the end of the Great Tribulation !! Matt 24:29_31 and Rev 1:7 and as He comes back , and every EYE shall Him whom they Pierced !!
#7 , So , we see that Israel will always be Israel , Separate from the Body of Christ !!
#8 , This is another portion of the bible that proves that a New Dispensation has began and that Paul is the new leader and also Disproves the One Gospel , does alway with Water Baptism does alway with the Law of Moses and Tongues , and Renders Acts 2 , IMPOTENT , along with Covenant theology !!
dan p
He said "as" Dan. That doesn't mean he was. Are you aware of what a simile is?
Check this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
If I were doing an especially good job at whatever I was doing at the time, and I said, "I'm on fire!" Do you think that I would be saying that I am literally on fire, and flames are melting away my body...
Or am I using a figure of speech?
They had to endure to the end to be saved, so no. And they are going to sit on twelve thrones over the twelve tribes. That is their inheritance.
We are joint heirs, brought near by the blood and we receive his life.
Here it is for me. I live according to God’s plan, not because i have to, because there is not anything I would rather do. This comes after salvation, this ease with living according to God’s plan.
It just makes me sigh when some says, "If you are saved and cannot lose your salvation, then what stops you from sinning, or being bad?” This is the acme of ignorance! We are saved not when we may be sinners, being saved WANTS to live according to God’s plan; it is like pleasing the most wonderful!
When I die, I go to heaven, do not have a carnal body, Earth, no more. I am with God forever. Jesus said in His father’s house, (heaven) there are many mansions ( like a desirable place to be, beyond human apprehension, so Jesus said mansions). Jesus also said His Kingdom is not of THIS world. (Heaven)
This is what i know and all i need to know. I manage to live by faith, receive Grace, the Holy Spirit fills my soul. My soul lives forever. I am saved and go to heaven. Saved is when God knows you are not going to fall into sin.
I heard of this other stuff, but I am not interested in earthly Kingdoms, I am interested in the Kingdom Jesus told to Pilot, not of this world.
If some people come though Christ by tribulations and remain on Earth, well, that is for them, not for me. No, they are not in the Body of Christ.
As to the apostles, I doubt anyone failed to realise what I have come to realise. Just look at Peter, he knew well, after the incident, when Jesus told him what he could not believe about himself, then Peter changed, he grew in faith. Look at Paul, how can one say Paul is not in the Body of Christ?
It just makes me sigh when some says, "If you are saved and cannot lose your salvation, then what stops you from sinning, or being bad?” This is the acme of ignorance! We are saved not when we may be sinners, being saved WANTS to live according to God’s plan; it is like pleasing the most wonderful!
When I die, I go to heaven, do not have a carnal body, Earth, no more. I am with God forever. Jesus said in His father’s house, (heaven) there are many mansions ( like a desirable place to be, beyond human apprehension, so Jesus said mansions). Jesus also said His Kingdom is not of THIS world. (Heaven)
This is what i know and all i need to know. I manage to live by faith, receive Grace, the Holy Spirit fills my soul. My soul lives forever. I am saved and go to heaven. Saved is when God knows you are not going to fall into sin.
I heard of this other stuff, but I am not interested in earthly Kingdoms, I am interested in the Kingdom Jesus told to Pilot, not of this world.
If some people come though Christ by tribulations and remain on Earth, well, that is for them, not for me. No, they are not in the Body of Christ.
As to the apostles, I doubt anyone failed to realise what I have come to realise. Just look at Peter, he knew well, after the incident, when Jesus told him what he could not believe about himself, then Peter changed, he grew in faith. Look at Paul, how can one say Paul is not in the Body of Christ?
You know some hold young John wrote the Gospel of John, where John says 'in the beginning there was the Word and the Word was with God and is God. Even if another wrote it, I will stand to this being of the teaching of John, beloved by Jesus,
You really have to know a Bible well enough to integrate it into your own thoughts, and have faith The Holy Spirit will guide you. I hope this helps?
You do no longer need your body identity, as you are much more than this, yet how much, I do not know, as to the full measure, yet I know, but cannot put into words, nor did Jesus try, He spoke in parables.
You will experience it, then we will both understand. Not ever are two persons are fully one flesh, they strive to be like one flesh, further this means they create one flesh by coming together, being a family, as this is the way of our Lord.
We remain separate; just look at the marriage bickering and the way women and men must acomadate. We will be one in Christ, meaning we shall be of the body of Christ, His people, not His flesh.
May the Lord bless you and keep you!
Hi , and here is a Literal word for word translation that I found , of 1 Cor 15:8 !!
" And last of all He was seen by me also , as if it were and Untimely Birth ".
In 1 Cor 15:8 it is literal , as SAUL was separated from birth , Gal 1:15 , is not a figure of speech !!
When was SAUL separated , In 1 Tim 1:9 or in Gal 1:15 ??
As far as what Gal 3:28 means ??
There 4 verb tenses in verse 28 !!
#1 , There is / ENI --- in the Present Tense and Indicative Mood
#2 , There is / ENI ---in the Present Tense and Indicative Mood
#3 , There is /ENI ---in the Present Tense and Indicative Mood
#4 , Are /ESTE ------in the Present Tense and Indicatve Mood
The Present Tense , means that there is CONTINUING Results and will continue until the " Fulness of the Gentiles become in " , which means to me the Departure/Rapture of the Body of Christ , Rom 11:25
dan p
heir
TOL Subscriber
I don't see how the 12 could be in the Body of Christ when they have a different gospel, requirements for salvation, timing of atonement for sins and inheritance. They're out.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So they were not saved by faith alone apart from works? Here is what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who were living under the law:
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).
Why would Paul have spent time with Peter if he were not of the body of Christ?
Galatians 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Galatians 1:18
King James Version (KJV)
18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
Same family, different ministry.
Matthew 19
28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
I have no stake in that. I will be hanging out in eternity with StP and John W hoping to get in some quips about a black Trans Ams while they carry on about Mayberry.
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