Theology Club: ARE THE 12 APOSTLES IN or OUT of the Body of Christ ??

[surrender]

Hi and you have not EVEN come close to addressing , " are the 12 IN or are the 12 OUT , BUT I see hope when God lets ME teach DISPENSATIONALISM 101 , YOU WILL BE THERE ,

I spoke in regards to this in post #8 and #13. Here’s the deal, though. Whether the 12 are “technically” in the body of Christ or not or whether all the redeemed of all ages are in the body of Christ or not (that is, if the body is a discreet entity), we are ALL ultimately the people of God. God has been working with people in different ways over the ages, and we each have played and will continue to play various roles in this age and in the age to come according to God’s will. Some of our roles are similar and some very different. From what I can tell, both Peter and Paul partake in the blessings of the new covenant, both are born again, and both find their salvation in the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

Explain to me why it’s important to know if Peter is “technically” part of the body of Christ or not. What difference does it make?

It is RELEVANT

No, my desires are irrelevant. God will do what He will do. Even so, I'm more concerned with WHO I'll be with rather than WHERE I'll be.

, as God has just revealed what He will do , and all believers will be trophies of His Grace Eph 2:7 !!

Eph. 2:7 says nothing about where (i.e. location) I will be in the next age. In the next age and the next and next (i.e. ages to come), God will show the riches of His grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. So, wherever we going to be, it sure sounds very nice.

 

[DAN P]

I spoke in regards to this in post #8 and #13. Here’s the deal, though. Whether the 12 are “technically” in the body of Christ or not or whether all the redeemed of all ages are in the body of Christ or not (that is, if the body is a discreet entity), we are ALL ultimately the people of God. God has been working with people in different ways over the ages, and we each have played and will continue to play various roles in this age and in the age to come according to God’s will. Some of our roles are similar and some very different. From what I can tell, both Peter and Paul partake in the blessings of the new covenant, both are born again, and both find their salvation in the life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

Explain to me why it’s important to know if Peter is “technically” part of the body of Christ or not. What difference does it make?

No, my desires are irrelevant. God will do what He will do. Even so, I'm more concerned with WHO I'll be with rather than WHERE I'll be.

Eph. 2:7 says nothing about where (i.e. location) I will be in the next age. In the next age and the next and next (i.e. ages to come), God will show the riches of His grace and kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. So, wherever we going to be, it sure sounds very nice.

Hi , and why is it important you say ???

You do not see , that Gen 1:1 , God said He made the HEAVENS ( that there are to be Heavenly people )

and that then He made the EARTH ( or Earthly people ) .


It is sad that most do not see that Israel will Inherit the Earth and the Body of Christ will be SHOWCASED throughtout the Universe , where Christ will SHOW His Exceeding riches of His GRACE in Kindness toward us through Christ Jesus . Eph 2:7 .

All believers should understand what we have in " in Christ " and not poosh poo it when you do not understand your position in Christ !!



Is salvation by Grace important ?

Is Eternal life inportant ??

Is the Trinity important ??

Is the DEPARTURE/RAPTURE important ??

Any comment on Eph 2:7 will have to wait since you do not see any significane and it deserves it's on OP , SORRY !!

DAN P

 

[surrender]

Hi , and why is it important you say ???

You do not see , that Gen 1:1 , God said He made the HEAVENS ( that there are to be Heavenly people )

and that then He made the EARTH ( or Earthly people ) .

It is sad that most do not see that Israel will Inherit the Earth and the Body of Christ will be SHOWCASED throughtout the Universe , where Christ will SHOW His Exceeding riches of His GRACE in Kindness toward us through Christ Jesus .Eph 2:7 .

Eph. 2:5-7 does not say that the body of Christ will be showcased throughout the universe. It says that by God’s mercy, He made us alive with Christ, raised us up with him and seated us in the heavenlies in Christ so that God might show His grace toward us in Christ in ages to come. In other words, God saves sinners so that He can put His grace and mercy on display continuously for all eternity. God also gave grace to Adam, Noah, Moses, David and Peter. They did not earn God’s grace. God saves those sinners so that He can put His grace and mercy on display continuously for all eternity.

 

[DAN P]

Eph. 2:5-7 does not say that the body of Christ will be showcased throughout the universe. It says that by God’s mercy, He made us alive with Christ, raised us up with him and seated us in the heavenlies in Christ so that God might show His grace toward us in Christ in ages to come. In other words, God saves sinners so that He can put His grace and mercy on display continuously for all eternity. God also gave grace to Adam, Noah, Moses, David and Peter. They did not earn God’s grace. God saves those sinners so that He can put His grace and mercy on display continuously for all eternity.

Hi , and thanks for aggreeing with me , even when you think you disagree , keep asking question , for you are my TEACHING AID to all , about dispensationalism !!

dan p

 

[surrender]

Hi , and thanks for aggreeing with me , even when you think you disagree , keep asking question , for you are my TEACHING AID to all , about dispensationalism !!

dan p

You seem to misunderstand. What I am not agreeing to is that the Body of Christ is some kind of trophy to be shown off to those supposedly saved according to the "gospel of the kingdom," as if they, too, are not saved by the grace of God.

What I am agreeing to is that because God saves sinners (of which all men are), His grace will be evident throughout eternity. You said the body of Christ will be showcased. I disagree. It is God’s grace that is showcased, not the body of Christ.

Eph. 2:5-7 says that God saves sinners so that God can continue to show His grace towards us for all ages to come.

 

[DAN P]

continue[/I] to show His grace towards us for all ages to come.

Hi , and in Eph 2:7 , there is the verb for " show " , ENDEIKNUMI , which means to ;

#1 , to point out , point out to who?

#2 , Show forth , show forth to who ?

#3 , Show , show to who ?

#4 , TO Demonstrate , demonstrate to who?

#5 , To Manifest , mansfest to who ?

#6 , To Display , to display to who?

#7 , To Prove , prove to who ??

This verb is in the Greek Middle Voice and means that God is doing this for Himself .

The verb EXCEEDING / HYPERBALLO , is in the Present Tense , which means that God will be " showcasing " the Body of Christ Continnually for ever in all the Universe , I believe to all His Creation .

dan p

 

[surrender]

Hi , and in Eph 2:7 , there is the verb for " show " , ENDEIKNUMI , which means to ;

#1 , to point out , point out to who?

#2 , Show forth , show forth to who ?

#3 , Show , show to who ?

#4 , TO Demonstrate , demonstrate to who?

#5 , To Manifest , mansfest to who ?

#6 , To Display , to display to who?

#7 , To Prove , prove to who ??

This verb is in the Greek Middle Voice and means that God is doing this for Himself .

Right. And “show” means “demonstrate.” If God is going to demonstrate His grace "in ages to come," that means He is going to continue to give grace for all eternity. We live under grace now and we will love under grace then.

The verb EXCEEDING / HYPERBALLO , is in the Present Tense , which means that God will be " showcasing " the Body of Christ Continnually for ever in all the Universe , I believe to all His Creation .

That’s not what Eph. 2:5-7 says, not quite, anyway. God “made us alive with Christ so that He might show the riches of His grace in ages to come.” He is displaying His grace. His grace is on showcase. That’s why God saved sinners—so He could manifest His grace. It’s all about God. It’s not about us. Yes, we are the recipients of His grace, but it’s not “us” who's on display; it’s God and His grace that are on display continually forever in all the universe to all His creation.

 

[DAN P]

Right. And “show” means “demonstrate.” If God is going to demonstrate His grace "in ages to come," that means He is going to continue to give grace for all eternity. We live under grace now and we will love under grace then.

That’s not what Eph. 2:5-7 says, not quite, anyway. God “made us alive with Christ so that He might show the riches of His grace in ages to come.” He is displaying His grace. His grace is on showcase. That’s why God saved sinners—so He could manifest His grace. It’s all about God. It’s not about us. Yes, we are the recipients of His grace, but it’s not “us” who's on display; it’s God and His grace that are on display continually forever in all the universe to all His creation.

Hi , and you still do not understand , WHATEVER !!

DAN P

 

[surrender]

Hi , and you still do not understand , WHATEVER !!

DAN P

Not a very articulate rebuttal.

 

[DAN P]

Not a very articulate rebuttal.

Hi , and when you advance into Pauline truth , you will be more ARTICULATE !!!

DAN P

 

[surrender]

Hi , and when you advance into Pauline truth , you will be more ARTICULATE !!!

DAN P

Whether we are technically "under" a covenant or not, we are "under" the law of Christ (1 Cor. 9:21), who is the mediator of a new covenant (Heb. 9:15). We are no longer strangers to the covenants (Eph. 2:12) which means we are no longer outsiders in relation to the covenants.

Whether the 12 are technically in the body of Christ or not, we are all ultimately the people of God.

The supposed “kingdom group” and the body of Christ are both the people of God, partakers in the new covenant blessings through Christ Jesus, and saved sinners. Eph. 2:5-7 says that God’s grace will be manifested in ages to come in saved sinners, for that is why God saved sinners, to show the riches of His grace for all ages to come. Since both groups are made up of saved sinners, His grace will be on display for all the universe in both groups.

 

[DAN P]

Whether we are technically "under" a covenant or not, we are "under" the law of Christ (1 Cor. 9:21),

Hi , and what is the " law of Christ " which also is mentioned in Gal 6:2 !!

There are over , 350 Laws of Christ that Paul has written about and are COMMANDS to the Body of Christ !!

Robert C Brock , has written a small , 97 page booklet , THE COMMANDS OF CHRIST , For Christian Living !!

dan p

 

[surrender]

Hi , and what is the " law of Christ " which also is mentioned in Gal 6:2 !!

There are over , 350 Laws of Christ that Paul has written about and are COMMANDS to the Body of Christ !!

Robert C Brock , has written a small , 97 page booklet , THE COMMANDS OF CHRIST , For Christian Living !!

dan p

Great. And whether or not the supposed “kingdom group” can be said to be a part of the body of Christ or not, we’re all the people of God, partakers in the new covenant blessings through Christ Jesus, and saved sinners.

Paul tells us that when we partake of the one bread, we are one body (1 Cor. 10:17). See also 1 Cor. 12:13 and Eph. 2:16.

"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).

This means that anyone who eats/partakes of Christ is part of the one body. The twelve disciples ate of "this bread" and therefore are part of the "one body."

 

[DAN P]

Great. And whether or not the supposed “kingdom group” can be said to be a part of the body of Christ or not, we’re all the people of God, partakers in the new covenant blessings through Christ Jesus, and saved sinners.

Paul tells us that when we partake of the one bread, we are one body (1 Cor. 10:17). See also 1 Cor. 12:13 and Eph. 2:16.

"I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I give for the life of the world is my flesh" (John 6:51).

This means that anyone who eats/partakes of Christ is part of the one body. The twelve disciples ate of "this bread" and therefore are part of the "one body."

Hi , and now many will see why some are OUT of the Body of Christ and why some are IN the Body of Christ !!

Some will never see the difference between Israel AND the Body of Christ OR between Kingdom and Grace !!

dan p

 

[surrender]

Hi , and now many will see why some are OUT of the Body of Christ and why some are IN the Body of Christ !!

I’m not trying to be difficult. I am genuinely trying to see how ALL Scripture fits together. This is what I am seeing thus far…

Some will never see the difference between Israel AND the Body of Christ

Israel (i.e. the 12 disciples & the circumcision to whom they ministered, in other words, remnant Israel) is part of the Body of Christ because they eat of the one bread, which is Christ, and we are told that those who eat of this one Bread are one body (1 Cor. 10:17).

Gentiles, although not part of Israel, partake in the covenant blessings of Israel—they are grafted into the rich root (Rom. 11:17)—through the Body of Christ.

Although Paul ministered to the uncircumcision, Paul, too, is part of remnant Israel (Rom. 11:1, 5). This means Paul, although part of the Body of Christ, is also part of Israel. If we could picture one big circle as the Body of Christ, I’d put Israel (remnant Israel) in the middle and Gentiles in the middle. We’re all part of the one Body by eating the one Bread, but Israel remains Israel and Gentiles remain Gentiles.

OR between Kingdom and Grace !!

By the grace of God, He promised a kingdom to Israel. By the grace of God, Gentiles are included in the promise God made with Israel.

 

[DAN P]

, WHAT DO


Hi , and just produce a verse , please !!

If Gentiles are INCLUDED WITH ISRAEL , what are they called '

JEWTILES ??

DAN P

 

[surrender]

Hi , and just produce a verse , please !!

If Gentiles are INCLUDED WITH ISRAEL ,

But now in Christ Jesus you [Gentiles] who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who made both groups (Gentiles & Jews/remnant Israel) into one…and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross…for through him we both have our access in on Spirit to the Father. So then you [Gentiles] are no longer aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and are of God's household. Eph. 2:13-19

Eph. 2:12 You [Gentiles] were...excluded from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise having no hope.
Eph. 2:19 You [Gentiles] are no longer strangers...but you are fellow citizens with the saints

what are they called 'JEWTILES ??

Why do they need a name? Gentiles share in Israel's blessings, they don't become Jews. Jews and Gentiles are side by side in the Body of Christ. We are ONE in him.

 

[DAN P]

Whether we are technically "under" a covenant or not, we are "under" the law of Christ (1 Cor. 9:21), who is the mediator of a new covenant (Heb. 9:15). We are no longer strangers to the covenants (Eph. 2:12) which means we are no longer outsiders in relation to the covenants.

Whether the 12 are technically in the body of Christ or not, we are all ultimately the people of God.
QUOTE]


Hi , and it does matter , because the bible does not link the New Covenant with the Body of Christ , BECAUSE :

#1 , The terms of salvation are different !

#2 , The HOPE of Israel is different from the Body of Christ !!

#3 , Christ will set of David's Throne in the Millennial Kingdom ?

#4 , Israel's land will be expanded !!

#5 , There will be a New Temple be built in Israel !!

#6 , Abraham and others , will be resurrected to live in the Kingdom !!

#7 , Israel will become Kings and Priests in the Millennium , Rev 1:6 !!

dan p

 

[surrender]

#1 , The terms of salvation are different !

What are the terms? What is one saved by in the kingdom group?

 

[DAN P]

What are the terms? What is one saved by in the kingdom group?

Hi , and you insist that we are in the New Covenant , side by side with Israel ??

This is what you believe , so you TELL me , IF YOU CAN ??

What are the TERMS of salvation at the end of the Great Tribulation for the Jews ??

I won't ask you , what is the Standard used , that lets the Gentiles enter the Millennium ??

dan p



DAN P