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  • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Howdy madman,

    That's a good question. If Christ died for Peter's sins, just like he did for Paul, then why wasn't Peter in the Body of Christ like Paul?

    I think the answer is that Peter was in good standing concerning the promises made unto the fathers concerning the King and the Kingdom. Jesus had said that he would "lay down his life for his friends". Peter was a "friend".

    Here's Paul, persecuting the church of God, blaspheming, and the fiercest enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ. He would not be included in the New Covenant promise to Israel. The only way God could save him was identify him in Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

    According to covenant promises, Peter's sins were paid for on the cross, but they would not be blotted out until the day of atonement at the 2nd coming. That's when he would be saved. Although Christ died for Peter's sins, he was not identified in the death, burial, and resurrection.

    The fact that there is a group of people identified in the d,b,r was a mystery.

    It was a transition period where there was a Jewish church (friends) operating under the promises made unto the father looking forward to the kingdom and their salvation...and another church (former enemies) made up of Jews, Greeks, and alien Gentiles looking back to the cross and being identified with the d,b,r. They do not look forward to the king and kingdom for their salvation (those promises do not include them).

    That's the best I can explain....maybe Randy can add more when he gets back.

    I can't do any better. I'll just back it with some additional thoughts.





    Prophecy shows Messiah being cut off after 69 weeks (Dan. 9:25-26). But the entire 70 weeks would need to be fulfilled in order to:
    • make an end of sins
    • make reconciliation for iniquity
    • bring in everlasting righteousness
    So while Messiah's sacrifice would be the basis for those things to come upon "[Daniel's] people and holy city" (Dan. 9:24), they would have to wait until the conclusion of the 70 weeks to experience it. For that's when they'd enter into the new covenant with God.

    The author of Hebrews quotes Jer. 31, which says about the new covenant for Israel and Judah:
    For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Heb. 8:12 cf. Jer. 31:34
    The author then makes that point that by "new" (in "new covenant") , the previous one becomes "old". But they were still operating under the "old", as of the time of the writing of Hebrews. For he says:
    In that he saith, "A new covenant", he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Heb. 8:13
    So that was the deal for Peter et al. Christ's sacrifice was absolutely effective for the blotting out of their sins. It only needed to be done once. And with Him taking care of that after the 69th week, the only thing they needed was to enter into the new covenant in their promised kingdom when Jesus would return, and they would actually experience it and be made eternally righteous.
    So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Heb. 9:28
    That's how I see it. Does that help at all?




    For everyone reading this...
    I've said this before, and it's something that a few seem to have a real struggle with for whatever bizarre reason, as if they can't bear a thread without some form of debate. This thread is just for informative purposes. I'm not trying to persuade anyone of anything. So if we work through this or any other issue and you ultimately conclude differently, then that's your prerogative. You won't get any argument from me. I hope you'll reciprocate.

    Thanks,
    Randy
    Funny how threads morph.


    For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


    "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

    __.._

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
      Sincere Inquisitors,

      What Peter said is crystal clear. It takes a lot smoke & mirrors to mess this up.


      1 Peter 1
      4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
      5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
      6: Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
      7: That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
      8: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
      9: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
      10: Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
      11: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
      12: Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
      13: Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;


      You can't just pluck verse 9 out of the passage, you must pay attention to what goes before and what goes after.
      You cannot receive the "end of your faith" while your faith is still "on trial".
      Funny how threads morph.


      For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


      "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

      __.._

      Comment


      • Originally posted by chickenman View Post
        [/INDENT]That's how I see it. Does that help at all?



        Very clear. We just need to drop the labels, drop the reliance on the "MAD" fathers as authoritative, and just believe what is written, let the chips fall where they fall.
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        You're too literal to get it.
        Originally posted by Interplanner
        The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by chickenman View Post
          I've said this before, and it's something that a few seem to have a real struggle with for whatever bizarre reason, as if they can't bear a thread without some form of debate. This thread is just for informative purposes.
          All I have done as a Mid Acts believer is to do exactly what Randy said to do at another place:
          Before talking about events starting in chapter 8, does anyone have any thoughts on this other information? Any disagreements, comments, questions (from the MidActs or "sincere other")?
          He asks if there is any disgreements and I have shown my disagreements. So nothing is bizarre about what I have done. Now let us look at where I disagree with the teaching of those in the Neo-MAD camp:
          Prophecy shows Messiah being cut off after 69 weeks (Dan. 9:25-26). But the entire 70 weeks would need to be fulfilled in order to:
          • make an end of sins
          • make reconciliation for iniquity
          • bring in everlasting righteousness
          So while Messiah's sacrifice would be the basis for those things to come upon "[Daniel's] people and holy city" (Dan. 9:24), they would have to wait until the conclusion of the 70 weeks to experience it. For that's when they'd enter into the new covenant with God.
          Randy fails to understand that the promises under the New Covenant promised to Israel are "nationalistic" in nature. They will be fulfilled to Israel as a whole, as the following verses indicate:

          "...that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins" (Ro.11:25-27).

          If Randy was right that sins could not be forgiven for individuals in Israel until the New Covenant was in place then why did the Apostle Peter say the following to those who received his first epistle?:

          "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Pet.2:12).

          Those in the Neo-MAD community need to learn to distinguish between the things in regard to the nation of Israel as a whole and the things in regard to individual Jews.

          In an address to the Evangelical Theological Society Howard W. Ferrin quoted Dean Alford's commentary on Romans 11:24-27 where Alford says that Paul "is dealing with 'nations'--with Gentile nations, and the Jewish nation. Thus dealing, he speaks of the fulness of the Gentiles coming in, and of all Israel being saved: having 'no regard' for the time of the 'individual' destinies of the Gentiles or the Jews, but regarding 'nations' as each included under the common bond of consanguinity, according to the flesh" (Howard W. Ferrin, "All Israel Shall Be Saved," Bibliotheca Sacra 112 [July, 1955], 241).

          In His grace,
          Jerry

          Comment


          • Originally posted by chickenman View Post
            For MidActs Dispensationalists of all flavors, what are the doctrines that you see as most important? And why? Specifically, I'm referring to doctrines that are most identifiable with MidActs Dispensationalism.

            I believe the most important doctrines overall are:
            • The gospel of Christ, which is the power of salvation unto all
            • Baptism by the Spirit into Christ, and understanding what that means
            I believe those are GENERALLY more clearly understood from the MidActs perspective, but of course there are others that are not MidActs'ers that are very strong in one or both of these two areas. So I guess of the things that are very specifically characteristic of the MAD approach, perhaps I'd say that recognizing that the dispensation of grace could not have begun at Pentecost is pretty important. For a failure to see that results in a domino effect of errors, attributing things for Israel to the Body of Christ.

            What do you say?

            Randy
            I say, in Eph. 4:1-6, Paul beseeches members of the Body of Christ to walk worthy of their (third-heavenly) calling by meekly, patiently, and lovingly endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. The apostle then lists precisely seven dispensationally-distinctive “ones” which IMO comprise or “encapsulate” this unity which we are responsible to keep today: i.e., one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God.

            I believe we are to strive mightily to understand/internalize all 66 books of the Protestant Bible (which are for our learning, thus necessary for our overall spiritual growth/progress)—but to especially keep/honor and proclaim/defend the doctrines related to these seven "ones" (which are to be found in the Pauline epistles, thus are directly to and for us). To begin keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace—as we’re commanded to do—we would need to understand at least the following:

            The one Body: comprised of regenerated/converted individuals without regard to ethnic, gender, societal/cultural, and/or slave/free distinctions, who are—each and every one—indispensable and equal. As members of this Body, we need to know when/how it began, how it operates, and when/how it will end.

            The one Spirit: the Holy Spirit Who regenerates us, baptizes us into Christ, drives us to the Word for nourishment/growth, intercedes for us in prayer, and (at the Rapture-Battle) will “quicken” our dead bodies, causing them to resurrect in incorruptibility and power.

            The one Hope: in eternity, under the Headship of Christ, to dwell in the third-heaven and jointly-rule the created order.

            The one Lord: Jesus Christ Who, more than 2000 years ago, poured out His soul unto death on a Roman execution stake—in our place, on our behalf, as our surety and substitute—in order to pay our sin debt in full, to justify us once-and-for-all-time before God, to provide for us a positive righteousness, and to present us to Himself as a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but standing holy and without blemish in Him.

            The one Faith: the spiritual gift of God, comprised within the “new nature,” which enables the believer today to apply the grammatical-historical hermeneutic to the 66 books of the Protestant Bible, to recognize the three dispensations set forth therein, (i.e., the Gentile dispensation, the Jewish dispensation, and the Mystery or Body dispensation), and to identify the Mystery/Body dispensation as the one now in force—thus distinguishing Paul’s gospel/law/hope as that which is to be honored in his own life.

            The one Baptism: the operation of God, in which the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the Body of Christ—identifying us with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and seating in the third-heaven—thus creating an eternal “vertical” bond between Christ and each member of His Body, and an eternal “horizontal” bond among all the joint-members, one with another.

            The one God: the Father, Whose “inheritance” we are because He (in love) chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, thus deliberately purposing to not spare his own Son but to deliver him up for us all—and, with Him, to also freely give us all things necessary for our spiritual growth, e.g., faith, love, repentance, understanding of the Scriptures, etc., thereby fitting us to dwell, in eternity, within “the inapproachable light,” as His inheritance.

            May each blood-bought saint be diligent to search the Scriptures and see whether these things be so.

            MK
            Always remember that you're unique, just like everybody else.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
              Sincere Inquisitors,

              What Peter said is crystal clear. It takes a lot smoke & mirrors to mess this up.

              here Peter is referring to a "future" salvation, the same exact one that Paul makes reference here:

              " For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life" (Ro.5:10).

              It is at the rapture that we are saved by His life when we will meet Him in the air and put on glorious, incorruptible bodies that are resereved in heaven:
              1 Peter 1
              4: To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
              5: Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
              This is the same "inheritance" of which Paul speaks about when he was converted on the Damascus road. The Lord Jesus told him the following in regard to the Gentiles:

              "To open their eyes (the eyes of the Gentiles), and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me" (Acts 26:18).

              The only people who had been sanctified before Paul were Jewish believers. Therefore the Gentiles who believed were to share the same inheritance that was given to the Jewish believers. Paul said the same thing to the Ephesian elders:

              "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Acts 20:32).

              The inheritance which the Gentile believers receive is said to be "among all them which are sanctified." That would surely be in regard to the Jewish believers.

              In His grace,
              Jerry

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                All I have done as a Mid Acts believer is to do exactly what Randy said to do at another place:

                He asks if there is any disgreements and I have shown my disagreements. So nothing is bizarre about what I have done.
                Jerry, I have no problem with you posting here and presenting your disagreements. I've been clear on that.

                You tend to want to push it a little at times. But I have no problem with others seeing the differences in the MidActs camp, giving them more information to evaluate.

                My comment didn't only have you in mind. So lighten up, present your differences, and whatever happens...happens.
                Funny how threads morph.


                For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


                "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

                __.._

                Comment


                • Originally posted by chickenman View Post
                  My comment didn't only have you in mind.
                  Randy, so your following comments didn't only have me in mind?:
                  I've said this before, and it's something that a few seem to have a real struggle with for whatever bizarre reason, as if they can't bear a thread without some form of debate. This thread is just for informative purposes.
                  I just wanted to clear up what you said by showing that I am not having any struggle so therefore my posts are not the result of anything that could be considered "bizarre."

                  I am "Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph.4:3).

                  Jerry

                  Comment


                  • For the sincere inquisitors, I thought I'd bring this up again, since it is a common question that arises when we say that the New Covenant is for Israel, but the Body of Christ is not under the New Covenant:


                    2 Cor 3
                    5: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
                    6: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


                    Paul ministered the spirit of the new testament, not the letter.


                    2 Cor 3
                    7: But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
                    8: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

                    What is the spirit of the new testament?

                    2 Cor 3
                    9: For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


                    The spirit of the new testament is the righteousness of God. How did Paul minister the spirit of the new testament, the righteousness of God?

                    Romans 3
                    21: But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
                    22: Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

                    So, the Body of Christ is imputed the righteousness of God (spirit of the new testament), whereas Israel will BE the righteousness of God when the New Covenant is in effect.

                    Ezekiel 36
                    24: For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
                    25: Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
                    26: A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
                    27: And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
                    28: And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.


                    Ezekiel 37
                    22: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
                    23: Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
                    24: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
                    25: And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.


                    The Corinthian letter is written to Jews and Greeks, those who knew the old testament scriptures concerning the new covenant, and Paul is showing them that he is ministering the spirit of it, the righteousness of God.
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    You're too literal to get it.
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                    Comment


                    • Very good, Jerry. Thanks.
                      Funny how threads morph.


                      For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


                      "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

                      __.._

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post

                        2 Cor 3
                        5: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
                        6: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


                        Paul ministered the spirit of the new testament, not the letter.


                        2 Cor 3
                        7: But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
                        8: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

                        What is the spirit of the new testament?

                        2 Cor 3
                        9: For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


                        The spirit of the new testament is the righteousness of God. How did Paul minister the spirit of the new testament, the righteousness of God?
                        Again, I must repectfully disagree.

                        "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Cor.3:6).

                        From this we can understand that being ministers of a “new testament” is in regard to the ministration of the Spirit, and that Spirit giveth life. This can refer to only one thing, and that is testifying the gospel of grace.It is the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5; 1 Pet.1:12) that brings life and by the immediate context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 we can understand that the ministry to which Paul makes reference is in regard to preaching the gospel:

                        "Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord" (2 Cor.4:1-4).

                        Paul's words "this ministry" are obviously pointing back to the "ministry" of 2 Cor.3:6 and it is evident that his words "this ministry" are in regard to the "manifestation of the truth," or preaching "Christ Jesus the Lord"-- "the glorious gospel of Christ."

                        In His grace,
                        Jerry

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
                          From this we can understand that being ministers of a “new testament” is in regard to the ministration of the Spirit, and that Spirit giveth life. This can refer to only one thing, and that is testifying the gospel of grace.It is the gospel which comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5; 1 Pet.1:12) that brings life and by the immediate context of 2 Corinthians 3:6 we can understand that the ministry to which Paul makes reference is in regard to preaching the gospel:
                          I'd like to make one further point.

                          2 Cor 3
                          6: Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
                          7: But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
                          8: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
                          9: For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


                          Paul defines the ministration of the spirit right here in the passage.
                          It is the ministration of righteousness. Righteousness giveth life.


                          Deuteronomy 8
                          1: All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.

                          But now, we have the righteousness of God without the law, that we may live, through the gospel.

                          Thanks everyone.
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          You're too literal to get it.
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                            We just need to drop the labels, drop the reliance on the "MAD" fathers as authoritative, and just believe what is written, let the chips fall where they fall.
                            STP,

                            I am having trouble attempting to reconcile your statement about just believing what is written and what you actually teach. Earlier you said
                            According to covenant promises, Peter's sins were paid for on the cross, but they would not be blotted out until the day of atonement at the 2nd coming. That's when he would be saved.
                            If the Jewish believers sins will not be blotted out or forgiven until sometime in the future then why does John tell them that their sins are already forgiven?:

                            "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake" (1 Pet.2:12).

                            if the Jewish believers could not be saved until later then how do you explain the following words of the Lord Jesus spoken to one of those Jews?:

                            "And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

                            It seems to me that these verses directly contradict your teaching. Perhaps you can explain why they do not.

                            In His grace,
                            Jerry
                            Last edited by Jerry Shugart; August 21st, 2010, 09:06 AM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by M. K. Nawojski View Post
                              I say, in Eph. 4:1-6, Paul beseeches members of the Body of Christ to walk worthy of their (third-heavenly) calling by meekly, patiently, and lovingly endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. The apostle then lists precisely seven dispensationally-distinctive “ones” which IMO comprise or “encapsulate” this unity which we are responsible to keep today: i.e., one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God.

                              I believe we are to strive mightily to understand/internalize all 66 books of the Protestant Bible (which are for our learning, thus necessary for our overall spiritual growth/progress)—but to especially keep/honor and proclaim/defend the doctrines related to these seven "ones" (which are to be found in the Pauline epistles, thus are directly to and for us). To begin keeping the unity of the Spirit in the bond of the peace—as we’re commanded to do—we would need to understand at least the following:

                              The one Body: comprised of regenerated/converted individuals without regard to ethnic, gender, societal/cultural, and/or slave/free distinctions, who are—each and every one—indispensable and equal. As members of this Body, we need to know when/how it began, how it operates, and when/how it will end.

                              The one Spirit: the Holy Spirit Who regenerates us, baptizes us into Christ, drives us to the Word for nourishment/growth, intercedes for us in prayer, and (at the Rapture-Battle) will “quicken” our dead bodies, causing them to resurrect in incorruptibility and power.

                              The one Hope: in eternity, under the Headship of Christ, to dwell in the third-heaven and jointly-rule the created order.

                              The one Lord: Jesus Christ Who, more than 2000 years ago, poured out His soul unto death on a Roman execution stake—in our place, on our behalf, as our surety and substitute—in order to pay our sin debt in full, to justify us once-and-for-all-time before God, to provide for us a positive righteousness, and to present us to Himself as a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing, but standing holy and without blemish in Him.

                              The one Faith: the spiritual gift of God, comprised within the “new nature,” which enables the believer today to apply the grammatical-historical hermeneutic to the 66 books of the Protestant Bible, to recognize the three dispensations set forth therein, (i.e., the Gentile dispensation, the Jewish dispensation, and the Mystery or Body dispensation), and to identify the Mystery/Body dispensation as the one now in force—thus distinguishing Paul’s gospel/law/hope as that which is to be honored in his own life.

                              The one Baptism: the operation of God, in which the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the Body of Christ—identifying us with Christ in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and seating in the third-heaven—thus creating an eternal “vertical” bond between Christ and each member of His Body, and an eternal “horizontal” bond among all the joint-members, one with another.

                              The one God: the Father, Whose “inheritance” we are because He (in love) chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world, thus deliberately purposing to not spare his own Son but to deliver him up for us all—and, with Him, to also freely give us all things necessary for our spiritual growth, e.g., faith, love, repentance, understanding of the Scriptures, etc., thereby fitting us to dwell, in eternity, within “the inapproachable light,” as His inheritance.

                              May each blood-bought saint be diligent to search the Scriptures and see whether these things be so.

                              MK
                              This is great, M.K. Thanks!

                              What about others?
                              Originally posted by chickenman View Post
                              For MidActs Dispensationalists of all flavors, what are the doctrines that you see as most important? And why? Specifically, I'm referring to doctrines that are most identifiable with MidActs Dispensationalism.

                              I believe the most important doctrines overall are:
                              • The gospel of Christ, which is the power of salvation unto all
                              • Baptism by the Spirit into Christ, and understanding what that means
                              I believe those are GENERALLY more clearly understood from the MidActs perspective, but of course there are others that are not MidActs'ers that are very strong in one or both of these two areas. So I guess of the things that are very specifically characteristic of the MAD approach, perhaps I'd say that recognizing that the dispensation of grace could not have begun at Pentecost is pretty important. For a failure to see that results in a domino effect of errors, attributing things for Israel to the Body of Christ.

                              What do you say?

                              Randy
                              Funny how threads morph.


                              For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


                              "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

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                              Comment


                              • Jerry,
                                You say that those of us in the so-called "neo-MAD" camp need to learn to distinguish between things pertaining to national Israel versus individuals. You said that Daniel's prophecy of chapter 9, which speaks of 70 weeks to make an end of sin, to bring in everlasting righteousness, etc. pertains to national Israel. And I agree with that. Here's my question:

                                Who will enter into Israel's promised earthly kingdom? Could an Israelite who had not had his/her sins eternally forgiven enter into that promised earthly kingdom?

                                Thanks,
                                Randy
                                Funny how threads morph.


                                For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." ~ Paul


                                "You should never wave to someone you don't know. What if he doesn't have a hand? Then he'll just think you're being cocky!" ~Mitch Hedberg

                                __.._

                                Comment

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