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Evolution and its effects.
- Thread starter Truster
- Start date
False dichotomy.
There's a third option.
Consider Genesis as generally literal, but recognize the figures of speech as figures of speech, and the woodenly literal as the woodenly literal, and use science to prove it.
Correct.
Incorrect.
Here's why:
The way we determine what it means is by context, not just of the passage, but of the entire Bible.
The way you're attempting to interpret it is according to what men said who lived after the Bible was written, rather than letting the Bible speak for itself.
You do this by constantly referring to Augustine, Spurgeon, and even White, hardly ever quoting Scripture.
Contrast that with the fact that not once have I or any other YEC on this thread or others used anything other than Scripture itself to defend our beliefs.
Based on that alone, who's view is more Biblical?
Context context context, Barb.
Jesus, said more that determines what he's talking about:
And He answered and said to them, [JESUS]“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”[/JESUS]They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”He said to them, [JESUS]“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”[/JESUS]His disciples said to Him, “If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry.” - Matthew 19:4-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew19:4-10&version=NKJV
Jesus directly quotes Moses:
Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. - Genesis 2:24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis2:24&version=NKJV
Who said anything about anything being figurative or literal?
That fact does not change whether what is being talked about is literal or figurative.
There's a figure of speech called a "synecdoche," which is when part of something is used to refer to the whole.
From Wikipedia:
| A synecdoche is a figure of speech in which a term for a part of something refers to the whole of something or vice versa. A synecdoche is a class of metonymy, often by means of either mentioning a part for the whole or conversely the whole for one of its parts. |
Jesus was using "the beginning" as a synecdoche to refer to the entirety of creation.
Rather, it would be correct to not assume one way or the other without considering the facts.
And the facts are that God created the heavens and the earth, then light, then the continental crust in the midst of the waters (what we call "hydroplates"), then the seas, then grasses, herbs that yield seeds, and fruit trees that yield fruit, then the stars, the sun, and the moon, then aquatic creatures, then birds of the air, then land animals, then man.
In order to claim billions of years, you would have to rearrange that order.
You know, it would help greatly if you didn't refer to yourself in the third person.
Who is "he"?
You or me?
Because you said it was me.
Twice in fact.
Which is why I suggested that you were going senile.
Would you like to retract your claim?
The only one who messed up here was you.
See the above image.
You could say a lot of things. Doesn't mean they'll be true.
But, I do deny that I am calling God a liar.
In fact, I'm the one asserting that God told the truth when He said "for in six days the LORD made the heavens, the earth, the seas, and all that is in them."
:thumb:
:thumb:
But see, here's the thing:
Genesis 1 records more about the beginning than that.
It also says:
Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.”Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so.And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so.And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the third day.Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years;and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so.Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also.God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth,and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.”So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food.Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day. - Genesis 1:3-31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis1:3-31&version=NKJV
Which, if we consider Exodus 20:11, and the context in which "yom" is used in that verse, means six literal days.
Which means that your position doesn't fit at all.
False dichotomy.
God is not contradicting Himself, because "the beginning" is referring to the entire six [literal] days of creation.
Why not?
If Jesus is talking about the beginning of creation ("creation" being the entire period of existence of the universe), and Moses wrote about the first six days of that creation, then there's no issue at all.
You're confusing "agitated and abusive" with "passionate about the truth."
Second (and final) warning. Show a little more respect for others.
This is pure anti-science propaganda. Science is the process of eliminating ideas based on the evidence. It doesn't eliminate ideas because you want yours to win.
As was noted on TOL before, increased public acknowledgement of evolution correlates well with the marked drop in violent crime over the past few decades.
And likewise, it has happened along with an increasing satifaction most Americans feel about their lives. Not much terror going on.
These seem like good things to me.
And likewise, it has happened along with an increasing satifaction most Americans feel about their lives. Not much terror going on.
These seem like good things to me.
As was noted before, refuted and roundly ignored? That "observation"?
It's inane:
Yeah? Why is all you have narrative?
Not really.
It's more likely due to the change in demographics:
So nothing to do with "boomers," who you seem to want to disparage.
Nope. As the proportion of young adults decreases, so does the rate of violence.
Trump? :idunno:
Not in the slightest.
1. Nobody has made such a claim. Evolution doesn't cause violence, people do. Evolution is a philosophy that erodes morals and leads to horrors.
2. As shown, you've taken a proportional decrease in violence that correlates with a demographic shift and pretended it is something else.
You are faced with the challenge of figuring out what is "woodenly literal" in a 3,000 year old document. And even if you do figure it out (or think you have), you are likely to end up having to choose between 1 and 2.
So you choose #2. Understood.
The science doesn't always match the ancient text. And an ancient text, old and holy as it may be, isn't science.
It's not challenging at all.
You don't read it "woodenly literally" all the way through.
You read it all the way through, get an overview, and let the context determine which is which.
It's as simple as that, and no, it doesn't require 1 or 2.
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Which is why so few of the world's Christians are YE creationists.
No, they're not YEC because they reject Genesis on the basis of secular scientists' opinions and claims.
You have it backwards. The majority of Christians accept Genesis as it is. A minority accepts the new revision by the SDAs.
And there are fewer and fewer of them over time:
In U.S., Belief in Creationist View of Humans at New Low
https://news.gallup.com/poll/210956/belief-creationist-view-humans-new-low.aspx
The good news is that it's not a salvation issue. God doesn't care what you think of creation, so long as you love Him, love your fellow man, and seek to follow Him.
That's been going on long before Christians even before the agreement on the Bible. A few interpret Genesis as a literal history. Most Christians don't.
But it's not something that will cost anyone his salvation unless he demands that all Christians must believe it as he does.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Nope.
Try respecting the people you disagree with. :up:
Nope.
Try learning what it is we believe instead of forcing things upon us.
Darwinists are forever touting the popularity of the ideas they like. They think it's evidence.
Seems to me it was Jesus who said that strait is the gate and narrow is the way to salvation, and few there be that find it. Just more evidence of Barbarian wanting to dismiss scripture in favor of the reasoning of pagan lagic. The Greeks were pagans, and our educational system is built upon Greek ideas of logic and reasoning, therefore Barb is trying to reach scriptural truth through pagan ideas. It's not a path to reaching the truth of God's word. God told us that it is impossible to please Him without faith.
More reasoning based on fallacy. Show me from scripture where God promised that most people would accept truth. It's just the opposite. Remember Elijah? He stood alone for God on Mount Carmel and defied priests, king, and queen for God. What side was the majority on? God's side, or Baal's side?
The question today is the same as it was in Joshua's and Elijah's days. Who/what are you going to serve and stand for? The devil and his ideas or God and his ideas? The choice tells you where you'll end up.