Young Earth or Old?

[Jerry Shugart]

So then, God DID create the world in vain, because it had become uninhabited and without form, even though He had created it fully formed and inhabited.

The word "vain" must be understood in the "context" where it is used:

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).​

The purpose of the LORD in creating the earth was that it would be inhabited. And that is the way that it was created. Therefore, the purpose of creating it was not in vain.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The word "vain" must be understood in the "context" where it is used:

Agreed.

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).​

Which is talking about the whole first six days, Jerry. not some undefined period of time that you choose to insert between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

The purpose of the LORD in creating the earth was that it would be inhabited.

And that's exactly what happened. God created the earth, and then formed it to be inhabited.

And that is the way that it was created.

No, first it was created, then it was formed, as the verse you just quoted says, to be inhabited.

Not "formed inhabited." Nor "formed so that it was inhabited."

"Formed to be inhabited."

Therefore, the purpose of creating it was not in vain.

I see the point you're making.

And I agree.

But to then say that therefore there were two earth formation events is a non-sequitur at best, and at worst an argument from silence.

 

[Guyver]

As I am here, may I interject that “formed” can be understood to mean shaped, carved, or intentionally fashioned. This meaning in no way conflicts with the notion that planet Earth unshapen...could have been intentionally changed at a later time.

Considering the planets and moons in our own solar system.....a “heavenly body” could certainly exist and be unformed by earth standards. Just look at the moon....sure it has surface features, but not like Earth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I see the point you're making.

And I agree.

Then do agree that what you said earlier is in error?:

In Hebrew, "make," "create," and "form" are THREE DIFFERENT WORDS, each with a completely different meaning. They are not interchangable like their english counterparts are.

Let us look at these two verses where "create" and "formed"are used:

"For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed (yatsar) it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).​

"In the beginning God created (bara') the heaven and the earth" (Gen.1:1).​

According to you the Hebrew words bara' and yatsar are not interchangable. But when we look at the following two verses it is evident that they are indeed interchangable:

"And God created (bara') great whales, and every living creature that moveth..." (Gen.1:21).​

"And out of the ground the LORD God formed (yatsar) every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air..." (Gen.2:19).​

Do you still want to argue that the Hebrew word translated "create" and the Hebrew word translated "formed" are not interchangable?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Fair enough.

Do you believe that the order of the six days of creation is important?

Of course.

 

[6days]

Is the earth relatively young (6,000-10,000 years old) or is it old (millions or billions of years old)?

Jesus believed Moses... Jesus referred to the foundations of the earth being at a time near to first humans.... Jesus referred to Humans in Gen. 2 being from "the beginning (six days)" in Genesis 1.... Jesus asks 'If you don't believe Moses, how can you believe in Him?'
Jesus believed the earth was 'young'...and so should we.

​

In the beginning the LORD created the earth and formed it to be inhabited. However, sometime after He formed it to be inhabited it became "without form" and dark so that it was no longer fitted to be inhabited:​

Jerry... You are rejecting what Scripture clearly says, and spinning it to try fit in secular beliefs about an old earth. Scripture tells us that In the beginning the earth was formless and empty. God formed and filled the earth over the course of six days. He could have created instantly, but instead He created a pattern for us...the 7 day week. (Ex. 20:11). So naturally, God had to start with something that had no form. We are told how He shaped...and filled the earth over the course of six days.

What is said in "bold" in the following statement refers to the earth being inhabited before it was in a state described as being without form:

That would contradict Scripture. God tells us 'For in six days, God created the heavens and the earth, and everything in them'. It was not a re-do.
​
​

So in the debate between Christian about whether the earth is young or old I say that it is old.

I will say, that you are rejecting the science...and the Scripture which does not allow for old earth.

 

[Jacob]

Of course.

Okay.

Do you accept the dates of science for an old earth? What about for the Universe?

 

[Apple7]

:nono:
old enough for : And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth"

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."

Gen 1 is a sequential summary of the creation events.

Gen 2 begins to fill in the details of the creation of mankind.

According to your line of reasoning, however, provides for Adam being created twice.

 

[Apple7]

Okay.

Do you accept the dates of science for an old earth? What about for the Universe?

Of course.

They are calculated by Einstein's Relativity equations....the most proven principles in all of physics.

 

[Apple7]

We can calculate using when people were born back about 6,000 years.

We can?

Using which Bible version (MT, LXX, or SP)?

If you sum the dates of each (of which we are NEVER commanded to do) then they vary by thousands of years.

Simply put, weak and shaky evidence for a 6k year old earth.

 

[Jacob]

Of course.

They are calculated by Einstein's Relativity equations....the most proven principles in all of physics.

I did not address you. It was a sequential question for Jerry Shugart.

Interesting answer.

We can?

Using which Bible version (MT, LXX, or SP)?

If you sum the dates of each (of which we are NEVER commanded to do) then they vary by thousands of years.

Simply put, weak and shaky evidence for a 6k year old earth.

You are mistaken in this. I believe that you can put it all together.

I did not claim a 6k year old earth. For that you would need the days of creation not when Adam and Eve were created.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Scripture tells us that In the beginning the earth was formless and empty.

It was created to be inhabited.

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).

It was created perfect then it became formless and empty:

"Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos" (Gen.1:1-2).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Okay.

Do you accept the dates of science for an old earth? What about for the Universe?

I believe that the earth was created at the same time as the universe.

 

[Hawkins]

That depends on what you have to assume.

Earth is created in another time-space then moved to its current position (in terms of time-space) on day 4. We thus can't tell its age by our reference of time and space.

 

[Jacob]

I believe that the earth was created at the same time as the universe.

Why do you say this?

Do you account for the days of creation?

 

[6days]

It was created to be inhabited.

"For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited" (Isa.45:18).

Yes... God created the earth to be inhabited. Genesis 1 tells how He created, formed and filled the earth in six days.

It was created perfect then it became formless and empty..

That is a belief which contradicts scripture. It was no a re-do... It was not a new beginning..... It was not a re-creation. In six days God created the heavens and the Earth and everything in them.

Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth. Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos" (Gen.1:1-2).

Jerry... It should be a warning that your beliefs may not be correct when you have to use an obscure translation, done by a man who believed that our souls came from hell and will return there. (And he had many other very strange beliefs also)

 

[Apple7]

I
You are mistaken in this. I believe that you can put it all together.

Using what as your reference?

MT?

LXX?

SP?

 

[Jacob]

Using what as your reference?

MT?

LXX?

SP?

Just all the available resources meaning the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes... God created the earth to be inhabited.

By the time of verse 2 it was no longer inhabited:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep" Gen.1:1-2).​

That is a belief which contradicts scripture.

According to your view it was the LORD who created the earth in darkness despite what we read about Him here:

"This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" (1 Jn.5:5).​

Jerry... It should be a warning that your beliefs may not be correct when you have to use an obscure translation, done by a man who believed that our souls came from hell and will return there. (And he had many other very strange beliefs also)

My points are not totally dependent on that translation.

 

[way 2 go]

Gen 1 is a sequential summary of the creation events.

Gen 2 begins to fill in the details of the creation of mankind.

According to your line of reasoning, however, provides for Adam being created twice.

old enough for : And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth"

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth."