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Discussion-One on One: Abortion (red77 vs. Turbo)

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  • Discussion-One on One: Abortion (red77 vs. Turbo)

    Debate found here.

    I can't see how anybody can read this and not see that Turbo is seriously winning the debate.

    When red77 admitted that "relieving suffering by causing others to suffer is wrong", he pretty much lost the debate right there. Every time he suggests that a woman has a right to to have an abortion for whatever reason he goes against what he said because he advocates relieving suffering by making another suffer.


    Originally posted by red77
    Originally posted by Turbo
    Hypothetically speaking: If a woman's only realistic chance of survival was to eat her 2-year-old, would it be justifiable in your opinion for her to go ahead?
    I've heard this before but I'll answer it, initially I believe no, Besides from the fact that I doubt many people would be able to do such a thing I think a loving parent would investigate every realistic and unrealistic possibility first...

    now if this led to the only chance of survival then pragmatically speaking the woman is justified, where would be the sense in both the mother and child dying if the mother had a chance to live and could do nothing to save her child?
    I honestly had to read this twice just to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding. This is a pathetic and incredibly twisted thing to say.
    "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



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  • #2
    Originally posted by Poly View Post
    I can't see how anybody can read this and not see that Turbo is seriously winning the debate.
    He has an unfair advantage.

    He's right.

    Comment


    • #3
      I honestly don't see your problem with a parent eating a child to as a last resort to survive. Why shouldn't they. If the child was going to die anyway, their death might as well not be in vain. Why should a life be lost simply because of someone's refusal to break the taboo of cannibalism? Pride?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MrRadish View Post
        I honestly don't see your problem with a parent eating a child to as a last resort to survive. Why shouldn't they. If the child was going to die anyway, their death might as well not be in vain. Why should a life be lost simply because of someone's refusal to break the taboo of cannibalism? Pride?
        What if you were stuck on an island with somebody bigger than you, and they thought that your life shouldn't be lost in vain? Would you have the same opinion?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MrRadish View Post
          I honestly don't see your problem with a parent eating a child to as a last resort to survive. Why shouldn't they. If the child was going to die anyway, their death might as well not be in vain. Why should a life be lost simply because of someone's refusal to break the taboo of cannibalism? Pride?




          "The most terrifying words in the English language are 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'" - Ronald Reagan



          Check out the "rightest" of all right wing moms. FarRightMom


          Upgrade your TOL membership.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr. 5020 View Post
            What if you were stuck on an island with somebody bigger than you, and they thought that your life shouldn't be lost in vain? Would you have the same opinion?
            If I was certainly going to die, and I couldn't eat them, then yes, I like to think I would.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MrRadish View Post
              If I was certainly going to die, and I couldn't eat them, then yes, I like to think I would.
              You disgust me.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MrRadish View Post
                I honestly don't see your problem with a parent eating a child to as a last resort to survive. Why shouldn't they. If the child was going to die anyway, their death might as well not be in vain. Why should a life be lost simply because of someone's refusal to break the taboo of cannibalism? Pride?
                I have a major problem with it because parents are supposed to protect their children. If the child was going to die anyway, the parent should do whatever he/she can do to keep the child alive. I can't see how someone cannot have a problem with this scenario.
                They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. They shall mount up with wings as eagles. -- Isaiah 40:31

                Vegetarian - Indian word for lousy hunter


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ebenz47037 View Post
                  I have a major problem with it because parents are supposed to protect their children. If the child was going to die anyway, the parent should do whatever he/she can do to keep the child alive. I can't see how someone cannot have a problem with this scenario.
                  I don't. Part of the scenario was the that there is no way to save the child. It would invariably die, regardless of any action on the part of the parent. It was to that supposition, and that supposition only, that advocated the parent eating the child. Of course I wouldn't advocate cannibalism in any other circumstance! What do you take me for??

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mr. 5020 View Post
                    He has an unfair advantage.

                    He's right.
                    Turbo is definitely winning.

                    I think his advantage is that his position is internally consistent, at least as far as their discussion has gone so far. red77 seems to be taking a position that unborn babies possess the same rights as anyone else, but that there are also cases where their rights are essentially mute. This seems pretty indefensible to me.

                    If red77 wanted to win, he'd have to attack the premise that an unborn fetus possesses the same moral status as a young post-natal child, but I'm not sure he's prepared to do that, and it would involve a lot of backpedaling.
                    Global warming denialists are like gravity denialists piloting a helicopter, determined to prove a point. We may not have time to actually persuade them of their mistake.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have no idea why this thread is in a religion section of a forum.

                      I wonder if anyone here had a dear little 11 year old daughter who was pack-raped and fallen pregnant, would they say to this poor suffering child victim:

                      well dear little one, I know you just suffered a heinous crime that was very painful and embarrassing, but I have decided that you will now also suffer morning sickness and regular embarrassing gyneacology check-ups and lack of ability to enjoy any more childhood activities like climbing trees with your friends (such activities endanger the pregnancy) and you will also suffer embarrassment as your body swells with pregnancy and everyone stares at you because you are pregnant at such a young age, so the shame and humiliation of a temporary event of rape will continue long-term publicly and will be obviously visible to everyone and you will suffer less sleep as the baby develops and presses on your bladder during the night and then you will suffer the trauma of painful labour and childbirth and you will breastfeed the newborn to ensure it has antibodies and for the rest of your life explain to your child and everyone else how you don't know who the father is. Yes you have suffered at the hands of vile enemies and now I'm going to ensure you suffer for the rest of your life dear child, because the welfare of your newly fertilised egg is more important to me than your welfare, so I refuse to allow you to use a drug that would expel this recently fertilized egg from your body.

                      Yep, I could just imagine some loving parent adopting that attitude with their traumatized dear little child victim of gang rape.

                      Oh, and why consider old age as another problem ... hey, who cares if some older woman is raped and falls pregnant, even if she suffers high blood pressure caused by the stress of the rape attack and often stress involved with late pregnancy causes gestational diabetes and the woman can look forward to oedema and stress related pregnancy disorders that accompany older age? Why should this rape victim matter or be specially considered? The fertilised egg is what matters most and who cares about the rape victim?

                      Certainly nobody here!

                      Expel a newly fertilised egg and NOT chop up an unborn in special circumstances? That would take more thought and compassion than blanketing all terminations under the one umbrella.

                      Take this personally ... what if the dear little child victim was yours????????????

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Glenda View Post
                        Take this personally ... what if the dear little child victim was yours????????????
                        I'd be a grandfather a lot sooner

                        Yes, that is something good from a horrible situation. Deal with it.
                        Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                        E≈mc2
                        "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                        "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                        -Bob B.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by stipe View Post
                          I'd be a grandfather a lot sooner

                          Yes, that is something good from a horrible situation. Deal with it.
                          Maybe good for you but not for the victim
                          Your consideration is totally selfish about what is good for you and the fertilised egg

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Glenda View Post
                            Maybe good for you but not for the victim
                            Your consideration is totally selfish about what is good for you and the fertilised egg
                            Hmmmm .. possibly I did seem to elevate the role of a grandfather over the role of a mother. My apologies. The rewards from being a good grandfather are almost totally eclipsed by the rewards for being a good mother. I should have made that clear.
                            Where is the evidence for a global flood?
                            E≈mc2
                            "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

                            "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
                            -Bob B.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Glenda View Post
                              I have no idea why this thread is in a religion section of a forum.

                              I wonder if anyone here had a dear little 11 year old daughter who was pack-raped and fallen pregnant, would they say to this poor suffering child victim:

                              well dear little one, I know you just suffered a heinous crime that was very painful and embarrassing, but I have decided that you will now also suffer morning sickness and regular embarrassing gyneacology check-ups and lack of ability to enjoy any more childhood activities like climbing trees with your friends (such activities endanger the pregnancy) and you will also suffer embarrassment as your body swells with pregnancy and everyone stares at you because you are pregnant at such a young age, so the shame and humiliation of a temporary event of rape will continue long-term publicly and will be obviously visible to everyone and you will suffer less sleep as the baby develops and presses on your bladder during the night and then you will suffer the trauma of painful labour and childbirth and you will breastfeed the newborn to ensure it has antibodies and for the rest of your life explain to your child and everyone else how you don't know who the father is. Yes you have suffered at the hands of vile enemies and now I'm going to ensure you suffer for the rest of your life dear child, because the welfare of your newly fertilised egg is more important to me than your welfare, so I refuse to allow you to use a drug that would expel this recently fertilized egg from your body.

                              Yep, I could just imagine some loving parent adopting that attitude with their traumatized dear little child victim of gang rape.

                              Oh, and why consider old age as another problem ... hey, who cares if some older woman is raped and falls pregnant, even if she suffers high blood pressure caused by the stress of the rape attack and often stress involved with late pregnancy causes gestational diabetes and the woman can look forward to oedema and stress related pregnancy disorders that accompany older age? Why should this rape victim matter or be specially considered? The fertilised egg is what matters most and who cares about the rape victim?

                              Certainly nobody here!

                              Expel a newly fertilised egg and NOT chop up an unborn in special circumstances? That would take more thought and compassion than blanketing all terminations under the one umbrella.

                              Take this personally ... what if the dear little child victim was yours????????????
                              I missed the part where and when this happened. Could you post that again, please?

                              Comment

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