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  • Bob Enyart
    replied
    BR7 Milestone: hit 39,000 views on Jan 16, 2005!

    Battle Royale VII Milestone:

    The number of views for BR7 hit 39,000 on Jan 16, 2006, about 29 months after the debate ended on Aug. 20, 2003!

    -Bob Enyart

    Leave a comment:


  • Turbo
    replied
    leers,

    That was only your second post, and you're already repeating yourself?

    Leave a comment:


  • Flipper
    replied
    I think that would be Planck, as in Max.

    Otherwise, a typical Plank length is 4 feet and you won't be able to get a lot of the quantum subtlety at such a scale

    Leave a comment:


  • leers
    replied
    Hawkings' atheistic universe argument

    I found this forum today, and I don't really understand where to post things but here it goes:

    The Theist guy said:
    "I can find a word for something popping into existence from nothing: magic. Magic is not real. And an atheist with a pre-suppositional bias against a supernatural origin of the natural universe must contradict at least one of the first two laws, and so, Stephen does. Hawkings is wrong."

    This is very much a false statement. Quantum physics predicts that particle/anti-particle pairs come into existence spontaneously. This has been tested by experiment and shown to be true. When things are at quantum and plank lengths you can't use standard forms of logic or reasoning. Existence and non-existence are not well defined concepts until the quantum system is disrupted by a classical system, ie. measured. As the universe can’t be measured outside itself, by definition, since it is all that there is. Hence, its existence on that scale becomes a difficult question to deal with in its own right. As Hawkings said, time itself is part of the universe. If the universe is point sized time does not process. If time does not process does the universe exist? How could we know it exists if it requires time to observe the universe to measure its existence? If something can't be measured to exist then the discrete distinction between existence and non-existence is meaningless.

    ( Bahh, rubbish, you say, but take 4 years of undergraduate physics and then come back and talk. One shouldn’t discount things because they superficially make no sense. )

    So I guess one could say that the universe was in this very much non-classical, semi-existent (but most likely physically tractable) state until it got large enough for time and existence to have some meaning. Then it existed. When physical systems scale to different rules, ie. Plank weirdness -> quantum -> semi-classical- > classical they do so smoothly. So one can not even say at what point the universe did in fact exist, and what point where existence had no meaning.


    A non-quantum argument that addresses this problem:
    The universe is defined as the set of all that exists. Anything that is not in this set does not exist. Does this set exist? The universe can’t include itself. Hence the universe does not exist. This is a classic paradox of logic. We see again that discussing the existence, non-existence, especially in the creation of the universe is on a deep level a flawed question. The vary notion of existence is so intimately tied to the concept of the universe that it can not be applied to the universe in a meaningful way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Thinker
    replied
    Bob,

    I hope I have read that wrong and you are not terminally ill.

    If it is the case you have my warmest best wishes and I hope you and your family are not suffering unduly.

    It brings home some of the reality of what I say here sometimes means little in the face of reality.

    Regardless of my own personal opinions.. if your faith gives you and your family comfort then it is a damn good thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • bob b
    replied
    Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
    Trouble is Bob.. it has been granted for you too !

    You don't know him either..as he is a figment of your imagination !
    I not only know Him, but I also place my trust in Him. Even though I am dying I have no fear, because He is with me and will comfort me in whatever lies ahead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Thinker
    replied
    Trouble is Bob.. it has been granted for you too !

    You don't know him either..as he is a figment of your imagination !

    Leave a comment:


  • bob b
    replied
    A choosy God is also one I would not want to be associated with !
    If that is your wish I predict that it will be granted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Thinker
    replied
    Lightson,

    I'm sure you've heard this before AT, but just for the record, Christians have been found by God and know Him. The fact that you found "bubkus" indicates that you were never a Christian.
    So you can’t really lose can you..

    You : “If you are sincere and seek God you shall find him”
    Me : “I was sincere and tried”
    You : “No you weren’t because you didn’t find him”

    Doh….

    I KNOW I was sincere.. but you can just SAY I wasn’t !

    In this case I am willing to accept MY explanation ahead of yours.. after all I am fairly sure I know me better than you do !

    1 John 2:19
    They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
    So I could never really win.. I never belonged anyway.. you God abandoned me.. (for no good reason I could see)..

    A choosy God is also one I would not want to be associated with !

    Leave a comment:


  • attention
    replied
    Originally posted by LightSon
    Sorry to be pedantic, but what is "fixious"? I can't find it in my dictionary.

    Or perhaps you meant one of the following?

    1. factitious: not spontaneous or natural; artificial; contrived

    2. fictitious: created, taken, or assumed for the sake of concealment; not genuine; false

    3. fictitious: of, pertaining to, or consisting of fiction; imaginatively produced or set forth; created by the imagination

    Sorry for my improper spelling, but I meant fictious as in fiction.

    Leave a comment:


  • attention
    replied
    Originally posted by bob b
    I would be amused to see your evidence to the contrary.
    It is YOUR claim that time exists independend of the physical universe, so we are waiting for YOUR evidence for that.

    Why do you think we need to deliver evidence to the contrary for such an absurd claim?

    Leave a comment:


  • LightSon
    replied
    Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
    I was a Christian.. I sought God in sincerity and humility.. I found bubkus !
    I'm sure you've heard this before AT, but just for the record, Christians have been found by God and know Him. The fact that you found "bubkus" indicates that you were never a Christian.

    1 John 2:19
    They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Thinker
    replied
    Bob,

    Scripture says that those who seek the Lord in sincerity and humility will surely find Him, and millions who have done that can testify to the truth of that claim.
    I was a Christian.. I sought God in sincerity and humility.. I found bubkus !

    Why does he cloak it all in some mystical.. seek and ye shall find.. that is either dumb or sneaky.

    I would just appear to all humans at once all over the world.. speak their language and say.. “Here I am.. these is the tenets you should follow [insert correct religion].. now get cracking”

    Even the worst sceptics would then say.. well did I dream that.. err only if the entire world did.. there could be no mistake..

    But your loving God dithers around in secrecy.. hardly one I would be interested in Knowing even if he did exist !

    Leave a comment:


  • bob b
    replied
    But then your God seems to be a tricky guy who won’t even obviously reveal himself now
    Scripture says that those who seek the Lord in sincerity and humility will surely find Him, and millions who have done that can testify to the truth of that claim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Aussie Thinker
    replied
    Lightson,

    What was he hanging it from ?

    What was the North he was stretching over the empty space ??

    Sounds like Bronze age mumbo Jumbo to me.

    Now if it said .. (even in terms Bronze age men could understand)

    “He makes the globe of the earth circle around the globe of the sun”

    I would have said.. that is something that is unlikely to have been known by men of that day.. maybe this thing has some merit…

    Instead you have only reiterated something that sounds like EVERY other bronze age myth about the Earth !

    Leave a comment:

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