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Battle Talk ~ Battle Royale VII

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  • Forever away from the God you once loved.

    Is. 22:12-14 And in that day the Lord GOD of hosts Called for weeping and for mourning, For baldness and for girding with sackcloth. But instead, joy and gladness, Slaying oxen and killing sheep, Eating meat and drinking wine: “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!” Then it was revealed in my hearing by the LORD of hosts, “Surely for this iniquity there will be no atonement for you, Even to your death,” says the Lord GOD of hosts.:snake:
    In service of the
    Lion and the Lamb

    Comment


    • Originally posted by spackle
      What's wrong with using a limited definition if it's sufficient to the argument.
      Nothing, as long as both parties agree. It is absolutely essential, though, that there be agreement on the definition before the debate proper begins, otherwise there's no point in debating if you're debating unrelated ideas.

      It might have actually been a smart move, because it puts Bob on the defensive.
      Precisely. Zakath has put the onus of establishing a working defition onto Bob, which has the end result of giving Zakath the first real target to shoot at.
      Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs! Chiefs!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Lion
        ZA-kath said:Luke 12:19-20 ‘And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.” "But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you...
        So when I get up tomorrow morning and log onto TOL, can I call you a false prophet?

        Comment


        • Re: Re: I need more ...

          Originally posted by Zakath
          I do.

          Atheism runs, more or less, on a spectrum from weak atheism, what most would term "agnostic" to strong atheism, what most would call an "athiest". I tend toward the strong end of the spectrum, meaning I actually disbelieve in the existence of any deities.

          I am open to changing my mind if someone (human or otherwise) provided sufficient evidence.

          Keep in mind you may see that term "sufficiency of evidence" again in the near future...
          I suppose you've read The Case for Christ and The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel, right?

          7:30 to 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time

          Comment


          • I struggled through it and found it very shallow and unconvincing.

            One characteristic of human nature is our ability to form correspondences, or patterns and links between discrete events and data where we want to regardless of whether such links and patterns are really justifiable, based on evidence.

            Extreme cases of this can result in paranoia, where the individual sees patterns of persecution and danger to themselves in the innocently intended actions of others and the random actions of the world around them.

            In like manner, when we believe something, we search for patterns (even unconsciously) and make connections that may not be apparent or even visible to others looking in from the outside. What was so blazingly apparent to Strobel, because he was actuallly searching for it, is relatively unconvincing to me.

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            • Zakath said:
              .....that we have to make decisions wisely, and that we cannot depend upon a "Big Brother" in the sky to solve our problems
              A "sky" god, eh? I guess you must not be referring to the Judeo-Christian God:

              1 King 8:27 - "But will God in very deed dwell on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens can't contain you; how much less this house that I have built!"
              SCRIMSHAW

              "Passions act as winds to propel our vessel; our reason is the pilot that steers her, without the winds she would not move; and without the pilot she would be lost". - The French

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Eireann
                Actually, it was a very good way to start the debate. Establishing a working definition that is fully understood by both parties is an essential beginning to a debate. If there is not a concise and mutually agreed-upon definition for "God," then the debate is sunk from the first post. Otherwise, both parties can argue in favor or against the existence of God -- by their individual definitions -- and never gain ground on the other because the other is debating something completely different.
                Since Zakath used to be a pastor and seems to be very familiar with Bob Enyart, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say Zakath knows very well the answers to his opening two questions for Bob. What a wasted post that was.

                7:30 to 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time

                Comment


                • Originally posted by wholearmor
                  Since Zakath used to be a pastor and seems to be very familiar with Bob Enyart, I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say Zakath knows very well the answers to his opening two questions for Bob. What a wasted post that was.
                  Watch out for those stray chainsaw when you're putting yourself out on a limb...

                  Comment


                  • Re: Zakath

                    Originally posted by Shane
                    David Eddings is an amazing author. Zakath, you have great taste. I enjoyed your first post and am looking forward to hearing what you have to say.
                    Whenever that may be that he says something, who knows?

                    7:30 to 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Zakath
                      Watch out for those stray chainsaw when you're putting yourself out on a limb...
                      Why?

                      7:30 to 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time

                      Comment


                      • You might be unwittingly cutting yourself off and be in for an uncomfortable landing.

                        Comment


                        • Zakath does his best work here... in the Battle Talk zone.

                          But seriously....

                          I am not sure what to think of Zakath's first post. I would be lying if I didn't think it was a bit to brief. I was sort of expecting that he would at least state his own case just a little.

                          I will give my old friend Zakath the benefit of the doubt and assume Zakath knows what he is doing. Although BR II certainly would prove otherwise.
                          Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                          TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

                          Comment


                          • That's because I'm a street brawler, not a trained fighter.

                            If you're going to start talkiing about BR II, should we all start singing "Glory Days" now?
                            Last edited by Zakath; June 17th, 2003, 08:36 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Zakath
                              I struggled through it and found it very shallow and unconvincing.
                              I agree.

                              Comment


                              • Hey posters, I'm impressed. (But hey, I'm a country boy...it don't take much.)

                                Sadly heer en thuh sticks we'uns don't get ta yappin much deeper then ar boots kin wade thru.

                                Seriously, I am very excited by the intellects brought to this table for all of us to feast upon. We are sharing discussions of 'proofs' and 'evidences' that reside inside the realm of logic and reasoning and I must ask this question:

                                "Is logic and reason sufficient to explore the existence of God?"

                                I'll go ahead and make myself look narrow-minded according to the views of some by quoting from the NASB Bible:

                                I Cor. 1:18-31 For the word of the cross is to those who are perishing foolishness, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I WILL DESTROY THE WISDOM OF THE WISE, AND THE CLEAVERNESS OF THE CLEVER I WILL SET ASIDE. Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs, and Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to Jews a stumbling block, and to Gentiles foolishness. but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised, God has chosen, the things that are not, that He might nullify the things that are, that no man should boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, that just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

                                So in light of the finite limitations of humanity let us go ahead and search for the answers to the presupposed God of infinite proportions and hope we can come away with even one molecule of His existence...it shorely ain't gonna hurt us mere mortals ne'ery one iota.

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