BRXII Battle talk

[Redfin]

So a physical resurection on earth teaches that you get to accept Jesus if you go to the lake of fire in the afterlife? Please tell me your kidding.

They teach what I said they teach, "that the power and grace of God extend beyond death and the grave."

This is the a resurection of the saints to go to heaven with Jesus. These are saints so they are not going to judgement, they are going to life.

Not scriptural, my uninformed friend. :nono:


Romans 14:12 – "So then each one of us shall give an account of himself to God."

II Corinthians 5:10 – "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ…”

Those words do not teach what they claim.

I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that your error here is a mis-type.

 

[CabinetMaker]

CM - Do you think that when God says he came to save the world he really only meant a fraction of it? That he knew beforehand that only a small percentage would make it to heaven?

Consider these verses as spoken by Jesus: Mathew 7: 13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
There is a wide gate that leads to destruction, not second chances. It was spoken by Jesus indicating that He knew there would be people who reject His offer of salvation. I believe God made His offer to ALL (meaning each and every one) knowing full well the only a relative few would accept. That does not invalidate His offer.

Do you think that all things are possible for God? what did Jesus say to his disciples after they asked 'who then can be saved'...? Do you not think that God already knows that left to man he wouldnt make it in his fallible state? What do you think Jesus's answer to the disciples meant...?

All things are possible with God is not the same thing as saying All things will happen with God. Possiblities are not guarntees.

how can Jesus be the ransom for all to be testified in due time if only such a small part of the world is actually ransomed?

Jesus ransomed all sin so that no sin stands between us and God. God gave men free will to accept or reject Him and God lets live and die by our will.

How can God be the saviour of ALL men ESPECIALLY of believers if only those who believe in the here and now are actually redeemed?

I think this verse is frequently miss-quoted by unversal salvation believers. It was offered as encouragement to Timothy in his ministry, not as a statement of doctrine. My view (and this is only my view) is that Jesus saved all men from their sins. Those that believe are especailly saved because we are redeemed to everlasting life in heaven.

your problem is is that your doctrine automatically has God failing in his will before the sacrifice of Jesus took effect, instead of thinking it possible for God to unify everything you're already believing that jesus couldnt in fact save the world.....and in so doing all the verses that speak of God's restoration have to be distoted and twisted into fitting a doctrine where God only saves a tiny percentage of all men........please tell me....how is that the 'good news' of the gospels....

My doctrine does not have God failing. It has men failing. Universalists blame God for mens failures and they can't accept that so they re-invent God into this really nice guy who doesn't really mean what He says. Quit blaming God for mans failings and things become clear.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That is an unsubstantiated assertion resorted to through the need to prop up the faulty doctrine of ET.

:dizzy:

Why not? You have admitted as much yourself.

No, I did not say that. I said that you come to know the Bible is true and Jesus is real, not believe, know. I see you fail to comprehind the difference.

Great! Does that mean it can’t tell us here and now anything about the possibilities for the hereafter?

The NT is quite explicit about what happens in the hereafter. You find what it says to be uncomfortable so you reject it and create your own view of the hereafter.

No, but it does "say” and “teach” that life is still available to those who are dead, which is what you asked for. Changing your requirement to “prove” in mid-stream does not become you or enhance your arguments, CM.

In point of fact is said

Now you must show me the verses that say there is salvation after death. Bet you can't.

I asked specifically for proof of salvation after death and you have not addresed it at all. :nono:

 

[belboy87]

Those words do not teach what they claim.

:hammer:

I'm joining you logos, with that migraine....

 

[CabinetMaker]

They teach what I said they teach, "that the power and grace of God extend beyond death and the grave."

Can youprove that without making unsuportable statements like the one above?

This is the a resurection of the saints to go to heaven with Jesus. These are saints so they are not going to judgement, they are going to life.

Not scriptural, my uninformed friend. :nono:

Romans 14:12 – "So then each one of us shall give an account of himself to God."

Yes, I see. Before the Saints are allowed into heaven they must give an account of their life, as will we. Still, Romans 14:12 does not say they go off to get a second chance.

II Corinthians 5:10 – "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ…”

Yes. See Mathew 25 for a description of that judgement.



I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt and assume that your error here is a mis-type.[/QUOTE]

 

[CabinetMaker]

:hammer:

I'm joining you logos, with that migraine....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voJ2HlLH4qw

 

[Ecumenicist]

Another thing that occurs to me is that how could those who believe in ET consider having children in the first place? Wouldnt that be such a selfish thing to do - to bring a life into the world with the threat of endless/agonising suffering hanging over their head? most people who believe in ET think only a fraction of the world will be saved as they so often trot the verse out about 'narrow being the way to life and broad the path to destruction'...(although then again this doesnt say anything about hell or an eternal fiery pit unless its interpteted to fit the doctrine....)

There's a myriad arguments to the pointlessness and hideousness of this doctrine of unending suffering....

Indeed, if I were an ET adherant, I would keep the message of the gospel a
complete secret, lest I reveal it to someone who upon hearing chooses to
reject it, and for that choice suffers eternal damnation.

 

[Zadok]

Those words do not teach what they claim. The verses teach that God and Jesus have absolute autority over physical death. There is nothing in these verses that teach there is a second chance to recieve Jesus as your Lord and saviour after death. Men live once, then judgement.

Spend some more time with your Bible Redfin. The truth is there, open your heart to the Holy Spirit and that truth will set you free!

Redfin; you must realize that salvation is by chance. Where does Jesus your Lord and Saviour teach there is a first chance. I found it, I found it. You did not choose Me!

 

[Zadok]

Indeed, if I were an ET adherant, I would keep the message of the gospel a complete secret, lest I reveal it to someone who upon hearing chooses to
reject it, and for that choice suffers eternal damnation.

Thank God damnation begins at the house of God, and especially the many aspiring teachers, truth smacking on TOL. arty: Let's see, there is not only damnation, there is greater damnation. And where does greater damnation apply?

 

[Zadok]

Thank God damnation begins at the house of God, and especially the many aspiring teachers, truth smacking on TOL. arty: Let's see, there is not only damnation, there is greater damnation. And where does greater damnation apply?

"Be not many of you teachers, my brothers, knowing that we shall receive the greater damnation.

 

[belboy87]

Can youprove that without making unsuportable statements like the one above?

[/QUOTE]

You are asking him to support a statement... without "making unsupportable statement" answers?

.......... :sheep:

 

[Damian]

Why is it that Christians cannot agree on the basics of salvation?

 

[belboy87]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voJ2HlLH4qw

Did you uh... post this because you base ur theology off of the Prince of Egypt cartoon?

We need to have a little talk....

 

[belboy87]

Why is it that Christians cannot agree on the basics of salvation?

Actually... the disagreement is not about salvation per say. It's about who will receieve it and when.

Good question though.

 

[Kimberlyann]

So a physical resurection on earth teaches that you get to accept Jesus if you go to the lake of fire in the afterlife? Please tell me your kidding. If you are serious I submit that it is not my knowledge of the contents of the Bible that are the issue here.

same story as Mathew 9 just in Luke. Same response.

Another example of Jesus's authority over physical death. Same response as above - you don't understand what you are reading.

the raising of Lazurus. Same thing as above.

Acts 9:40 40Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.

Peter's faith in Jesus was great enough that Peter was able to excercise Jesus' authority over physical death. It is no different than the versers above.

This is the a resurection of the saints to go to heaven with Jesus. These are saints so they are not going to judgement, they are going to life.


Those words do not teach what they claim. The verses teach that God and Jesus have absolute autority over physical death. There is nothing in these verses that teach there is a second chance to recieve Jesus as your Lord and saviour after death. Men live once, then judgement.

Spend some more time with your Bible Redfin. The truth is there, open your heart to the Holy Spirit and that truth will set you free!

No second chances after death you say?

NASB: For the gospel has for this purpose been preached even to those who are dead, that though they are judged in the flesh as men, they may live in the spirit according to [the] [will of] God.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Actually... the disagreement is not about salvation per say. It's about who will receieve it and when.

Good question though.

I think its about the very nature of God. Does God:

Love some and torture the rest?

Love some and kill the rest?

Love everyone and provide true restitution and healing?

 

[Aimiel]

Indeed, if I were an ET adherant, I would keep the message of the gospel a complete secret, lest I reveal it to someone who upon hearing chooses to
reject it, and for that choice suffers eternal damnation.

It won't be the mere fact that they rejected The Word of God, every time He presented it to them which damns them, but that fact coupled with the fact that everyone sins, and that no one who has sinned is allowed into Heaven. Only The Blood of Jesus can remove sin. Everything else is just a placebo, no matter how cleverly disguised it might be. The fact is, if you don't warn someone, then when that person is found guilty, their blood will be required by your hand, so you'll be held just as guilty for their sin as they are. You'll be required to exact their sentence and to explain why you didn't do anything about their sin.

I think its about the very nature of God. Does God:

Love some and torture the rest?

Love some and kill the rest?

Love everyone and provide true restitution and healing?

He provides perfect restitution to those who believe, and healing with the same pre-requisite. It is faith which heals just as it is faith that saves. It is God's faith, not ours; He merely loans it to us.

 

[Damian]

I think its about the very nature of God. Does God:

Love some and torture the rest?

Love some and kill the rest?

Love everyone and provide true restitution and healing?

Philosophically speaking, the correct answer is that God is love and love heals. Anything else portrays a malevolent deity.

 

[belboy87]

I think its about the very nature of God. Does God:

Love some and torture the rest?

Love some and kill the rest?

Love everyone and provide true restitution and healing?

Looks like we've got logic AND scripture on our side...

DOI! :bang:

 

[belboy87]

It won't be the mere fact that they rejected The Word of God, every time He presented it to them which damns them, but that fact coupled with the fact that everyone sins, and that no one who has sinned is allowed into Heaven. Only The Blood of Jesus can remove sin. Everything else is just a placebo, no matter how cleverly disguised it might be. The fact is, if you don't warn someone, then when that person is found guilty, their blood will be required by your hand, so you'll be held just as guilty for their sin as they are. You'll be required to exact their sentence and to explain why you didn't do anything about their sin.He provides perfect restitution to those who believe, and healing with the same pre-requisite. It is faith which heals just as it is faith that saves. It is God's faith, not ours; He merely loans it to us.

So, on whos hands does the blood of ALL the Incan and Mayan nations rest? Christopher Columbus?

:devil: