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  • #31
    Originally posted by PastorKevin
    It is possible to believe the Bible teaches unbelievers will be in the Lake of Fire for all eternity and not believe that God is a sadistic monster. I for one do not believe that God is a sadistic monster and neither do any of the Christians I know who hold to the orthodox position of unbelievers being eternally separated from God in the Lake of Fire. There are many Christians on this very website who believe the Lake of Fire is eternal and I would venture to say none of them believe that God is a sadistic monster. And we love God with all of our hearts and lives as the Scriptures say we should. So it is possible to believe the Biblical doctrine of the Lake of Fire and still love the Lord.

    Have a good day!
    Sure its possible to love God and believe in eternal hell, I used to. Its not so hard to imagine a righteous God punishing "evil" people for their sins. I don't question any one's love for God. I'm not trying to step on any one's toes either. I was just stating what 'I' believe and how 'I' feel.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Pharisees
      Do you ever get the feeling that sometimes the heavenly host just look down at us, see us arguing and debating trivia and say, "They are such morons," ?

      What are you trying to say Pharisee? Is this your backhanded way of telling us that this is a pointless debate? Do you have a non-trivial issue that the heavenly host would look down and say, "This is worth watching!" ?

      Please share it if you have one.
      Listen to the spinoff of Doug McBurney's "Weekly World View", Dave's WorldView at

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Knight
        You are right, God is not sadistic, which is why He doesn't force people to be with Him for eternity when they do not wish to do so.
        No, God isn't sadistic. I can't imagine God having to force anyone to spend eternity with Him once they know the truth.


        Here is what Paul's says we must do to be saved.
        "....that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." (Romans 10:9-10) NASB
        Everyone will confess Jesus is Lord.
        For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phl 2:9-11)NASB
        I don't believe this is a forced confession or it wouldn't be to the glory of our Father.




        I believe that confession is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Notice 1 Cor 12:3
        1Cr 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. (1Cr 12:3)NASB

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Knight
          You are right, God is not sadistic, which is why He doesn't force people to be with Him for eternity when they do not wish to do so.
          Your problem is not technology. The problem is YOU. You lack the will to change...You treat this planet as you treat each other. - Klaatu

          What are you talking about? There is no such thing as the "Mafia"......it doesn't exist. Just a bunch of lies told to defame honest hardworking Italians like myself. - TomO

          I will do you, let's see, goofy, wacky, and to the left side of the bell curve
          . -Ktoyou

          I'm white. I'm not black. I can't convert to being black. It doesn't matter how much I want to become black. I could listen to rap and date fat white women all day; for all that, I'll still remain white.- Traditio

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          • #35
            Is it sadistic for a father to prevent their child from doing something destructive?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by DavesWorldView
              What are you trying to say Pharisee? Is this your backhanded way of telling us that this is a pointless debate? Do you have a non-trivial issue that the heavenly host would look down and say, "This is worth watching!" ?

              Please share it if you have one.
              I don't believe there is anything we could talk about that would make the heavenly host want to tune it. If I was in heaven, I'd be taking care of God's business up there, not worrying about what was happening down here.

              By the way, the name is "Pharisee(s)." Its the plural form, and further, I would like to commend you, for this may be the first time you have not used one of your posts as a shameless self-promotion of your asinine radio show. The airwaves are clogged enough with whining drivel as it is.
              No, I never went to Bible College, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Chileice
                Has everyone already made up their minds who will win? I thought the last debate was going to be interesting, but everyone went into with their minds already made up...
                Including you, right?
                ...so it didn't matter what anyone said. Everyone thought their view was the winner.
                Including you, right?


                Are you undecided as to whether sinners who reject Christ will exist separated from God for eternity?

                What do you expect, for everyone to have no opinion on whatever topic is chosen for a Battle Royale? Should we just forget everything we've already learned on a given topic when it is announced that there is an upcoming BR on it? Why do you expect us to do that, yet you don't do that yourself?
                BRXI: Should Christians support the Death Penalty?

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                • #38
                  Preconceived notions are powerful!

                  One of the things I learned in Theology classes was that preconceived notions are very powerful. What a person thinks ahead of time affects how they interpret something. If I think a particular person is a liar, whether I am right or wrong, I will seriously be questioning the things he says than if I knew nothing about him.

                  The same holds true with Theology. What we think about God and the Bible can strongly impact how we interpret the things we read. This is why it is so critical to interpret Scripture in light of Scripture and in light of what the original audiences would have believed was meant by what was said. This is one of the many critical aspects to practicing sound hermeneutics.

                  This truth also carries over into other areas of life. If I have a preconceived notion that there is no God, I will interpret all scientific data to my thinking that there is no God. No matter what someone shows me, until my preconceived notion is changed, my thinking is corrupted by it. My objectiveness is gone! It is virtually impossible to be objective about something a person has already gained strong preconceived ideas about. You can scream all you want that you are being objective but you're not.

                  When we approach this subject of the Lake of Fire and whether or not it is eternal, there will be people on both sides of the fence who have preconceived notions. Those ideas will affect who they agree with during the debate and who they think is winning the debate. This will include Logos and I both. We will both be strongly affected by our preconceived notions. My encouragement to everyone who reads the debate is to make every attempt possible to do away with preconceived notions and read it with an open mind.

                  God bless!


                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Knight
                    You are right, God is not sadistic, which is why He doesn't force people to be with Him for eternity when they do not wish to do so.
                    oh come now, you would also say that everyone would want to be in Heaven with God if they knew the difference, congruency! congruency!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Kimberly-
                      What if God was not in the least responsible for what goes on in the lake of fire? Or hell, for that matter... What if God allowed people to go there, because they chose not to be with Him, even though He doesn't want that for anyone, and then turned His back on te whole thing?
                      sigpic

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Lighthouse
                        Kimberly-
                        What if God was not in the least responsible for what goes on in the lake of fire? Or hell, for that matter... What if God allowed people to go there, because they chose not to be with Him, even though He doesn't want that for anyone, and then turned His back on te whole thing?
                        noone would voluntarily walk into a lake of fire, they would have to be forced into such a thing, it could hardly be called God 'allowing' people to do so....
                        "Either these curtains go or I do...."

                        - Oscar Wilde on deathbed

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Chileice
                          Has everyone already made up their minds who will win? I thought the last debate was going to be interesting, but everyone went into with their minds already made up so it didn't matter what anyone said. Everyone thought their view was the winner. I wonder if there will be any more objectivity this time around.





                          I thought the last BR was great, I still read the threads. Maybe the reason their minds were made up was becuase they were for the DP.
                          Just my .02

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Chileice
                            Has everyone already made up their minds who will win? I thought the last debate was going to be interesting, but everyone went into with their minds already made up so it didn't matter what anyone said. Everyone thought their view was the winner. I wonder if there will be any more objectivity this time around.

                            I think that you you are actually asking two seperate questions without realizing it.

                            Most people already have strong opinions on which view they think is right going into the debate. Therefore they think they know who is going to win.

                            On the other hand the horse they are backing might have an inferior jockey, or a "blindside" as the jockey in the movie Seabiscuit. Therefore one's superior "horse" could be outridden, in the debate.

                            Then comes the hard part, in a real horse race, outside of a rules infraction the winner by a neck or more is clear to everyone! In a debate of this type the judging is individual and subjective. If one's horse loses the debate either by persuasive arguments from the other side, or terrible handling of your horse, will you be honest enough to say so?

                            We are counting on you to show us that type of integrity.

                            Personally, I followed three debates closely. I agreed with Turbo going in, and theo did nothing to persuade me, and clearly was outmanuevered in that debate.

                            I do not see how a person could say theo won that debate, yet, they "could" still say that theo was right, and Turbo was wrong.

                            Those are the two seperate questions. Who won, and who is actually right?

                            The other debate was about foreknowledge. My jockey was a Calvinist, and he misrode the horse to a loss. Bob Enyart won that debate, and IMHO Bob Enyart, is wrong.

                            The first debate was about God's existence. That debate Bob Enyart clearly won on a knockout, when Zakath "quit". Although he denies it and claimed he was in the hospital. Others finished the debate for Zakath's side and actually did worse than he did, IMHO.

                            Yet despite Zakath breaking numerous rules, and time requirements and "quitting" without explanation, for months? Many people in the meantime, STIILL voted him the winner. That debate certainly proves your point. No matter what is said and even if someone quits and loses by "knockout" some people will still vote which side they think "ought" to have won.

                            In any event don't take those types of people too seriously. They lack the integrity that you are looking for.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lighthouse
                              Kimberly-
                              What if God was not in the least responsible for what goes on in the lake of fire? Or hell, for that matter... What if God allowed people to go there, because they chose not to be with Him, even though He doesn't want that for anyone, and then turned His back on te whole thing?
                              What about the billions of people who have never even heard of Jesus or the Gospel. Do they choose to go to Hell?


                              God..."desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim. 2:4)

                              I believe He will accomplish all His desire.

                              He said so Himself...."Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it. (Isa. 46:10-11)

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by red77
                                noone would voluntarily walk into a lake of fire, they would have to be forced into such a thing, it could hardly be called God 'allowing' people to do so....
                                Actually, they would walk into hell. Then they would be thrown into the lake of fire, when hell is. However, they wouldn't have to go to hell voluntarily. All they would have to do is reject Christ.
                                sigpic

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