Battle Royale XIV discussion thread

George Affleck

TOL Subscriber
Nope, not that one either.

Edit:
Well, GA just called me thick in a rep comment. However, I fail to see how a printed book can exist when heaven and Earth have both passed away. Back to you chum to be a little clearer and use words.

That's because you're still focused on the printed book. The Word of God exists inerrantly because God promised to preserve it. If he decides, during one period of history that it should be preserved as ketchup written in the Sahara sand, it will be so. If he decides to preserve it as literature, it will be so. The medium is not the essence of the truth, just the vehicle. The essence of the truth is preserved revelation.

Now, where is it?
 

False Prophet

New member
The world’s book like the Bible can never be exhausted, nor can any one person completely report it. It has as many aspects as it has translators. Most commend it to its readers as a book of morals, and to many it is the world’s great fairy tail. Others find it as an archaic historical document. While many find in it religious inspiration as the only true book of faith.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Unfortunately for his argument, God never promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone.

1 Cor 13:10KJV, Eph 5:8KJV, Psa 119:105KJV John 14:26KJV, 2 Pet 1:15KJV, Heb 4:12KJV, 2 Cor 2:17KJV, Psa 119:130KJV, 1Th 2:13KJV, 2 Pet 1:21KJV, 1Pe 1:25KJV

If those verses are supposed to show that God has promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone, then they prove my point very nicely, since none of the verses even come close to a promise of a complete and inerrant Bible.

How about this one? Matthew 24:35KJV
No, that doesn't provide any promise about a complete and inerrant Bible, either.

Maybe you should have started with this one, since it actually speaks about a written book.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
I read most of Will Kinney's first post and agreed. Then I read the first part of Bob Enyart's and found myself agreeing. I'll have to go back tomorrow and read them both in full.

I have and easy solution, I stick to KJV only and have a good NIV for concordance. My NIV is a Life Application Study Bible. I always do my personal Bible reading from the KJV, so I win either way
 

patrick jane

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Banned
If those verses are supposed to show that God has promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone, then they prove my point very nicely, since none of the verses even come close to a promise of a complete and inerrant Bible.


No, that doesn't provide any promise about a complete and inerrant Bible, either.

Maybe you should have started with this one, since it actually speaks about a written book.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.


Yes, I was fascinated when I first read that verse John 21:25 KJV -


What that means to me is that no matter what happens on earth or even when this earth has passed away, Christ still IS, and The Word Is Christ, so the Word will never pass away. We have the inerrant Word of God as He intended, why fight it ?
 

Tweety134

New member
Will Kinney will always have my thumbs up in everything he says. I will not read anything but a KJV for serious study. I read it daily for hours sometimes. I will enjoy this debate. I believe the KJV to be the only way to salvation.
 

Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
That's because you're still focused on the printed book. The Word of God exists inerrantly because God promised to preserve it. If he decides, during one period of history that it should be preserved as ketchup written in the Sahara sand, it will be so. If he decides to preserve it as literature, it will be so. The medium is not the essence of the truth, just the vehicle. The essence of the truth is preserved revelation.

Now, where is it?

Thank you for using words this time instead of just quoting a load of scriptures and expecting us to guess your meaning.

In answer, the original statement in issue was that of GO who said

Unfortunately for his argument, God never promised that there would be a complete and inerrant Bible available for anyone.
In response to this you quoted a load of verses, none of which talk about a Bible or any kind of body of literature.

Now, you have moved the goalposts to a different question, 'Is God's word preserved'.

And still none of the scriptures you have posted refer to any body of literature. It's a different question. For instance, take John 21:25. Clearly there were lots of things Jesus did which were never recorded. There must have also been things which he said which were not recorded either. How does that fit with your naive view that all of Jesus' words would be preserved forever?

I have another question, which I wonder if BE/WD will broach in later posts.

You never answered the part in GO's post which said 'inerrant'. I am assuming that by 'inerrant' you mean simply that the text of some document or set of documents, is a 100% correct copy of some previous document or documents. Or that it is the 100% representation of some spoken word by Jesus/the apostles/prophets.
Of course it may have other connotations relating to the actual quality of the content such as it being historically 100% accurate, that sort of thing. I don't see how this kind of assertion is at all relevant because if God speaks some words, those words are his words, whatever words they are. That's why I assume when KJVO people state that the preserved word of God is 100% inerrant, they mean that it reflects the original word of God as spoken or written by the inspired original author.

Which is why also it makes no sense to suggest that the KJV is 100% inerrant. Because the KJV was an English language Bible and although in practice it was copied from the Bishops Bible, from your theological perspective it was a completely new work. So why call it inerrant? If it is a new work that stands on its own authority, then it just is what it is. Or when a KJVO believer says that God's inerrant word has been preserved, was he perhaps expecting that there was some issue over whether what God said was somehow wrong?
 

False Prophet

New member
Erasmus inserted the 1 John 5:6,7 verses into his Greek/Latin parallel New Testament with his commentary. That is how these verses got into the King James Version.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Ive never seen a battle royale before, This is my first seeing one - I understand this thread is for comments about the battle, but wanted to know is it ok to debate comments that others (outside of the battle participants) leave here in the thread?
 

Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi everyone, Will Duffy here. I hope you are all enjoying the debate. I know I thoroughly enjoyed preparing the last few months, including some international travel to really get hands-on with documents that are hundreds of years old.

So here's a peculiar one. Maybe someone can help me understand and comprehend this, because I'm at a loss for words. I am getting booted and blocked from King James Only groups on Facebook for promoting this debate. I have not made one argument or said anything about the KJB. I simply posted a link to TOL to make others aware of the debate. Is this even comprehensible?

Maybe others here could help me promote the debate on Facebook in the various King James Only groups, since I'm quickly running out of options. You'd think they would want to promote this, right?

Can't help you there I'm afraid as I am only a member of this forum. But in any case thanks for all the hard work you have put in to this debate and next time you come to England, do pop in!
 

ranecks

New member
I see that the proposition is stated as "Is the King James Bible the Only Inspired Scripture on Earth Today?" I have not seen how Bob, and Will have even addressed the proposition as yet. I have observed that Bob and Will, (BW) have tried to attack the KJB, but I have not seen any thing that would be considered errors. Take for example, the differences noted in the Bishop's Bible from the KJB, and also the difference noted in the editions of the 1611. All of these differences are just that differences. Very small differences at that, compared to modern version differences.
What I am concerned about is the Bible that I have in my lap. It might be a 1769 edition, I do not know. Both Bob and Will admit that anything that they call errors are corrected in later editions of the KJB, especially by the time the 1769 edition came out. They claim to have a perfect message, where is it that I may read it?
 

Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I see that the proposition is stated as "Is the King James Bible the Only Inspired Scripture on Earth Today?" I have not seen how Bob, and Will have even addressed the proposition as yet. I have observed that Bob and Will, (BW) have tried to attack the KJB, but I have not seen any thing that would be considered errors. Take for example, the differences noted in the Bishop's Bible from the KJB, and also the difference noted in the editions of the 1611. All of these differences are just that differences. Very small differences at that, compared to modern version differences.
What I am concerned about is the Bible that I have in my lap. It might be a 1769 edition, I do not know. Both Bob and Will admit that anything that they call errors are corrected in later editions of the KJB, especially by the time the 1769 edition came out. They claim to have a perfect message, where is it that I may read it?

You obviously haven't read what BE/WD said so when you have I would be happy to respond.
 

False Prophet

New member
The King James translators rendered the Hebrew sheol as hell 31 times; 31 times as grave, and three times as pit. Why the inconsistencies for this translation? God is not one of disorder but God is one of peace.
 

patrick jane

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Banned
Will Kinney will always have my thumbs up in everything he says. I will not read anything but a KJV for serious study. I read it daily for hours sometimes. I will enjoy this debate. I believe the KJV to be the only way to salvation.

Well Tweety, I too read KJV only but I believe the gospel of our salvation can be known without even owning a Bible or reading one.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV - 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV -


Romans 10:9-10 KJV - Ephesians 1:7 KJV - Ephesians 1:13 KJV -

by simply hearing, understanding and believing

Romans 10:17 KJV - Ephesians 2:8 KJV -
 

Desert Reign

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I believe the KJV to be the only way to salvation.

Merci de partager votre avis avec nous. C'est dommage pour tous les infortunes qui ne soient pas predestines a parler anglais mais ceux-ci ne sont que des perdus en tous cas n'est-ce pas?

Spoiler
Thanks for sharing your opinion. It's a shame for all the unfortunates who aren't predestined to speak English, but these are only reprobates anyway, aren't they?
 

Bob Enyart

Deceased
Staff member
Administrator
Hi everyone, Will Duffy here. I hope you are all enjoying the debate. I know I thoroughly enjoyed preparing the last few months, including some international travel to really get hands-on with documents that are hundreds of years old.

So here's a peculiar one. Maybe someone can help me understand and comprehend this, because I'm at a loss for words. I am getting booted and blocked from King James Only groups on Facebook for promoting this debate. I have not made one argument or said anything about the KJB. I simply posted a link to TOL to make others aware of the debate. Is this even comprehensible?

Maybe others here could help me promote the debate on Facebook in the various King James Only groups, since I'm quickly running out of options. You'd think they would want to promote this, right?

Will, what a trip! Even when we debate atheists, they brag on their sites of the upcoming debate. Homosexuals, on the other hand, I've never seen them promote any of our debates.

Just don't get the KJO folks! Has Will Kinney promoted this on his site? At KGOV, we're all over it!

- Bob
 
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Bob Enyart

Deceased
Staff member
Administrator
Will Kinney will always have my thumbs up in everything he says. I will not read anything but a KJV for serious study. I read it daily for hours sometimes. I will enjoy this debate. I believe the KJV to be the only way to salvation.

Thanks Tweety for your willingness to read the debate! - Bob E.
 
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