Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[God's Truth]

Did the glorified Jesus have a gaping wound where a Roman soldier pierced His human body?

Jesus rose from the dead and showed himself to his disciples. He showed himself to the disciples with the same body he had when he died.


John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

 

[godrulz]

Jesus is God, and since he is God, he is also the Father. For there is only ONE GOD, and He is the Father.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Your trinity doctrine says there is One God the Father, and another God Jesus Christ. That is error.

You are mixing modalism and Arianism/Unitarianism. Like it or not, those verses are fully consistent with the trinity that you misunderstand and reject. You also selectively ignore the verses that undermine your view.

 

[God's Truth]

can someone please state for me AMR and GT positions?

who is arguing what side of the debate?

In laymans terms please

AMR is a trinitarian. Trinitarians say Jesus is God, but not the Father. They also say Jesus is God but not the Holy Spirit.

I believe that Jesus is God, and therefore the Father, and the Holy Spirit who also is God.

 

[Brother Vinny]

Jesus rose from the dead and showed himself to his disciples. He showed himself to the disciples with the same body he had when he died.

So, when did He go back to the spiritual body? (Or has that happened yet?) And where did His physical body go when He was finished with it?

 

[God's Truth]

You are mixing modalism and Arianism/Unitarianism. Like it or not, those verses are fully consistent with the trinity that you misunderstand and reject. You also selectively ignore the verses that undermine your view.

Stop confusing the discussion. You are only stating worthless opinions.

 

[godrulz]

AMR is a trinitarian. Trinitarians say Jesus is God, but not the Father. They also say Jesus is God but not the Holy Spirit.

I believe that Jesus is God, and therefore the Father, and the Holy Spirit who also is God.

You have redundant titles, while we have meaningful relationships within God's being. You are begging the question by assuming God must be unipersonal and cannot be triune/compound vs solitary unity.

Revelation>reason.

 

[Brother Vinny]

Stop confusing the discussion. You are only stating worthless opinions.

It's all relative. I place a bit more value in his opinion than yours.

 

[godrulz]

Stop confusing the discussion. You are only stating worthless opinions.

Actually, I am saving your bacon by giving things you need to understand if you are not going to get knocked out in the first round.

 

[Brother Vinny]

Actually, I am saving your bacon. . ..

Mmmm, bacon. <*drool*>

Spoiler

 

[God's Truth]

So, when did He go back to the spiritual body? (Or has that happened yet?) And where did His physical body go when He was finished with it?

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

 

[godrulz]

GT: Your last post makes the accusation that AMR has not explained your last sentence about God, Father, Jesus. This is not true. He did explain it and I understand it. You simply don't understand it because you reject the possibility outright. You are tying his hands and being unreasonable. Why bother so-called debating?

 

[godrulz]

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

JWs use this verse too, but it is consistent with trinity and strained in a Oneness assumption.

 

[Brother Vinny]

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

That answered my question not one whit.

Sure, Jesus ascends to the Father (how he does that when He is the Father is a conundrum I'll let you play with). At what point did He/does He divest Himself of His fleshly tabernacle?

If He had left His body behind at the Ascension, surely mention would have been made.

 

[God's Truth]

JWs use this verse too, but it is consistent with trinity and strained in a Oneness assumption.

I quoted a scripture and look at all the assumptions you make.

 

[Brother Vinny]

I quoted a scripture and look at all the assumptions you make.

Assumptions wouldn't have to be made if you clearly stated your view.

 

[God's Truth]

That answered my question not one whit.

Sure, Jesus ascends to the Father (how he does that when He is the Father is a conundrum I'll let you play with).

Don't you believe Jesus is God?
If you believe Jesus is God, then how is it you cannot understand that Jesus is God and goes to God?

At what point did He/does He divest Himself of His fleshly tabernacle?

If He had left His body behind at the Ascension, surely mention would have been made.

Our bodies will be CHANGED in a twinkling of an eye.

Since our bodies will be changed, why is it you think that Jesus' body was left somewhere?

 

[God's Truth]

Assumptions wouldn't have to be made if you clearly stated your view.

I am answering your questions.

You however do not answer my questions.

 

[Brother Vinny]

I am answering your questions.

You however do not answer my questions.

I think I've done fairly well, considering your questions oft deal with the ineffable.

How about answering this:

Would you please provide a full outline of what you believe so that we may understand and cease unintentional mischaracterization?

 

[God's Truth]

I think I've done fairly well, considering your questions oft deal with the ineffable.

How about answering this:

Would you please provide a full outline of what you believe so that we may understand and cease unintentional mischaracterization?

I believe Jesus is God; therefore, he is the Father, because God is the Father. I believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit, because Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
I believe the three are One and the same.

 

[oatmeal]

Are you being sarcastic?

This post from you is no more than a worthless opinion.

As is yours

and AMR's.

so we all start at the same place, do we not?

Now, having offered that, what does scripture say?

and what does it not say?