Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[steko]

Well what I think has hardley any meaning to anyone

But I am trying to understand AMR's question, is he leading him to say its physical or is he trying to say its physical....


Me personally,,not physical at all,it was for the ones he appeared too after he Rose...but he clearly told Pilate.. "My kingdom is not of this world"

Joh 18:36

What does the word 'now' mean?

 

[God's Truth]

Well what I think has hardley any meaning to anyone

But I am trying to understand AMR's question, is he leading him to say its physical or is he trying to say its physical....


Me personally,,not physical at all,it was for the ones he appeared too after he Rose...but he clearly told Pilate.. "My kingdom is not of this world"

The scriptures say that Jesus died, and rose again, and that Jesus was glorified in God's presence.

What is raised is not the same body as the immortal bodies that die.

When Jesus comes, we will be raised with a new body like his.

How could you think that Jesus does not already have a Spiritual body? When he comes, we will see him with his Spiritual body.

 

[steko]

The scriptures say that Jesus died, and rose again, and that Jesus was glorified in God's presence.

What is raised is not the same body as the immortal bodies that die.

When Jesus comes, we will be raised with a new body like his.

What happened to the body that died on the cross and was placed in the tomb?

 

[JosephR]

Joh 18:36

What does the word 'now' mean?

Ok it seems He is saying that it is not of this world for now,but it will be later. But I havent put any research into it just what it seems apon reading a few times.. Yes he will come back and the kingdom will be physical is what it seems to imply... But why would he go backwards back to physical? I know why to fulfill prophecy,but to stay in physical state, is that what glorified new earth and bodies means? I hope not.......

 

[God's Truth]

What happened to the body that died on the cross and was placed in the tomb?

Jesus rose from the dead in his body.

 

[steko]

Ok it seems He is saying that it is not of this world for now,but it will be later. But I havent put any research into it just what it seems apon reading a few times.. Yes he will come back and the kingdom will be physical is what it seems to imply... But why would he go backwards back to physical? I know why to fulfill prophecy,but to stay in physical state, is that what glorified new earth and bodies means? I hope not.......

Did Jesus ever cease being physical?

 

[steko]

Jesus rose from the dead in his body.

Yes, indeed! :thumb:

 

[JosephR]

Did Jesus ever cease being physical?

Well when he left the disciples and returned to the Father as far as our understanding goes yes,,he stopped being physical.. Jesus said,, " I tell you things about the Earth"physical" and you do not believe me,, how can I tell you about the things of Heavan"spiritual"

I think when He went back to the father He went to the world that Elisha could see , the chariots of fire .


So when Elisha saw the chariot of fire.. did he stay physical? I cant imagine how.. Same with Jesus... I think I need to study the term "glorified" maybe that will help me understand.

 

[God's Truth]

Ok it seems He is saying that it is not of this world for now,but it will be later. But I havent put any research into it just what it seems apon reading a few times.. Yes he will come back and the kingdom will be physical is what it seems to imply... But why would he go backwards back to physical? I know why to fulfill prophecy,but to stay in physical state, is that what glorified new earth and bodies means? I hope not.......

Excellent statement you made asking why Jesus would go back to physical. Jesus is NOT going to come back in an earthly body and live on this world the way it is now. Jesus is going to come back in his Spiritual body, and live with us on the New Earth. However, the Spiritual BODY is a physical body. We have an earthly body, with a spirit inside us. When we die, our spirits live on; at the resurrection, we will be given a new body, it will be a spiritual body.

 

[steko]

Well when he left the disciples and returned to the Father as far as our understanding goes yes,,he stopped being physical.. Jesus said,, " I tell you things about the Earth"physical" and you do not believe me,, how can I tell you about the things of Heavan"spiritual"

I think when He went back to the father He went to the world that Elisha could see , the chariots of fire that took him home.

Is heaven within creation or exterior to it?

 

[JosephR]

Is heaven within creation or exterior to it?

Heaven is in the spiritual, we cannot build a space ship to get there....

It is the dimension God and the Angels abode in when creation took place.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, indeed! :thumb:

Jesus rose from the dead in his body. However, he was glorified in God's presence with a Spiritual body.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


We will have a body like Jesus' Spiritual body when he transforms our earthly body to be like his.

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body

 

[JosephR]

Jesus rose from the dead in his body. However, he was glorified in God's presence with a Spiritual body.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


We will have a body like Jesus' Spiritual body when he transforms our earthly body to be like his.

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body

Ok thank you guys I was just trying to understand the question,, I dont mean to take away from your One on One or this thread..

 

[God's Truth]

Hello AMR,

I see that you are viewing this thread. Please go to our one on one. I am excited about our debate.

 

[steko]

Heaven is in the spiritual, we cannot build a space ship to get there....

It is the dimension God and the Angels abode in when creation took place.

So, in your estimation, that dimension is infinite and greater than GOD, and that the angels are not created but eternally equal with GOD?

 

[God's Truth]

Ok thank you guys I was just trying to understand the question,, I dont mean to take away from your One on One or this thread..

You are not taking anything away from this thread. You made an excellent point about Jesus not going backwards by coming back in an earthly body to live on this earth.

 

[steko]

Jesus rose from the dead in his body. However, he was glorified in God's presence with a Spiritual body.

His 'Spiritual' body is the same physical body that walked on the earth, died on the cross and rose from the dead. It is now 'glorified' in that it has taken on qualities which it previously did not have.....qualities from heaven.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

This brings us back to the original argument regarding GOD's multipersonality. If there is an 'I with you' then there were at least two persons in existence in GOD before the world began.

We will have a body like Jesus' Spiritual body when he transforms our earthly body to be like his.

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body

Yes, indeed!

 

[JosephR]

So, in your estimation, that dimension is infinite and greater than GOD, and that the angels are not created but eternally equal with GOD?

AH no not at all,It was where God was before he created US "the known" physical universe.

When He said "Let US make them in Our image" the place they were when that conversation took place.

Nothing can be greater than God for He creates ALL... Before US and after US.

And He did create the Angels.

 

[God's Truth]

His 'Spiritual' body is the same physical body that walked on the earth, died on the cross and rose from the dead. It is now 'glorified' in that it has taken on qualities which it previously did not have.....qualities from heaven.

His Spiritual body is NOT the same physical body that walked on earth. Jesus walked on earth in a human body. When we have our new bodies at the resurrection, we will be given a body like his. If our bodies will be exactly as they are now, then we would not be told that what we will be is not known.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

This brings us back to the original argument regarding GOD's multipersonality. If there is an 'I with you' then there were at least two persons in existence in GOD before the world began.

There are three, and the three are all the same God.

 

[steko]

AH no not at all,It was where God was before he created US "the known" physical universe.

When He said "Let US make them in Our image" the place they were when that conversation took place.

Nothing can be greater than God for He creates ALL... Before US and after US.

And He did create the Angels.

If GOD existed 'within' something before He created, then that something logically would be greater than He and would necessarily be infinite, which would reduce Him to be less than He really is. There can only be one infinite. Infinite is all of it....whatever 'it' is. Only GOD is infinite being and His immensity prohibits His total containment in anything......except in the current immanent manner which is beyond our finite understanding.

I say there was only GOD existing in Himself before He created the heavens and the earth. He created the highest heaven as a 'place' to dwell in His 'manifest' Glory, within the created universe. The LORD Jesus is presently in that place.
Before creation there was only GOD. Then He created the material universe and everything in it including the angels.