Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

[godrulz]

There are three, and the three are One and the same.

redundant....Father, Son, Holy Spirit can each be called LORD/YHWH, but that does not mean they are the same. Spirit of Christ can refer to the Holy Spirit, but that does not make Him Jesus. Many verses show personal distinction, so your Spirit, spirit, Christ verse must be interpreted in light of this. There are various names, titles for the Father, for the Son (different than the Father in many cases), and the Holy Spirit. This shows their distinction vs same in every sense without compromising their common nature/oneness.

 

[godrulz]

How do you think love must be excluded? You are decrepit.

Love involves subject and object. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father. If they are the same person, there is no give and take love relationship, just self-love.

 

[godrulz]

You say persons as if God is a mere man.

Finite persons are one thing. Divine 'persons' are not finite. Personal (will, intellect, emotions) is the issue, not created men. This is why I use personal distinction/conscious center, not person.

"I check my beliefs with God, not with your choice commentators". GT


Your subjective, arrogant statement has been said in various ways by many false teachers who are anti-intellectual and above criticism/critique. Cultists, false religions, heretics, etc. all claim divine endorsement. The issue is proper Bible interpretation/application, not using the Lord's name in vain to endorse your unbiblical ideas!?

 

[godrulz]

I am not sure how AMR keeps his blood pressure down. This is why I would not do a one-on-one with sozo/door/outlaw. Some people are not credible enough to expend time and energy on at some point.

 

[Lon]

I am not sure how AMR keeps his blood pressure down. This is why I would not do a one-on-one with sozo/door/outlaw. Some people are not credible enough to expend time and energy on at some point.

The impetus is the main over the pawn but yes, there is a lot of heavy lifting archivable work here.
Example:

From Scripture we see communion, fellowship, love, and more existing between this plurality. The doctrine of the Trinity is an indiscoverable truth by natural reason. Attempts to draw triad-like analogies from nature and metaphysics to describe the Trinity will always fail. The doctrine of the Trinity is a purely revealed doctrine and the God who is to be worshipped must be worshipped along Trinitarian parameters. This revealed truth shows its self-consistency when we observe that once a believer embraces this truth and its consistency with other know truth, the negative service of reason to faith makes the Trinity the only adequate conception of God.

It little matters this was the response:

Please keep your posts shorter. I have not read anything that you posted right here. Having me read this is not debating....

because I will not be quoting lackadaisical assertion from this debate.

"Yes Virginia, this was the definition of debating. That you think lackadaisical counterpoints is also debate is the problem :nono:

It is right up there with "Nuh Uh!" and "You are not the boss of me!" followed by "Rasberries!"

<Cue Monty Python Black Knight/flesh wound clip reel>
Quadruple amputee: "It's just a flesh wound."

 

[bybee]

The impetus is the main over the pawn but yes, there is a lot of heavy lifting archivable work here.
Example:

It little matters this was the response:

because I will not be quoting lackadaisical assertion from this debate.

"Yes Virginia, this was the definition of debating. That you think lackadaisical counterpoints is also debate is the problem :nono:

It is right up there with "Nuh Uh!" and "You are not the boss of me!" followed by

I am so grateful for AMR's explanation of very complex and difficult concepts. It is at the conceptual level that one wishes for clarity and he provides it.

 

[glorydaz]

I am so grateful for AMR's explanation of very complex and difficult concepts. It is at the conceptual level that one wishes for clarity and he provides it.

We're all reaping benefits....except perhaps GT. I've been greatly enjoying the schooling.

 

[glorydaz]

You say persons as if God is a mere man.

You should be paying closer attention. AMR explained it very well. Why don't you go back and reread what he's posted already....maybe two or three times, and masticate well before ingesting.

 

[glorydaz]

Scriptures become confusing when they have people such as yourself teaching false doctrines.

You make up lies, stories, as if it were true. All it shows is you are a contentious person. I am not stomping my feet.

Oh, GT. When are you ever going to put off that spiritual pride? :nono:

Paul considered his education rubbish.

The devil ensnares people to do his will. If you are teaching things that the scriptures do not say then you should be told.

You just proved what I have been saying.

Oh dear. When are you ever going to stop thinking you've proved anything? If anyone is "ensnared", it's you. He's ensnared you with pride and you are caught up in it.

You do not know for sure if I am a man, or a woman. If you knew God better, you would know that is does not matter. Tell me, why do you make it matter? Why would you speak better to woman than to a man? Men need to speak better to each other. It is not a sign of weakness to speak with love to each other; it is a sign of being a true worshiper.

Try humbling yourself.

Are you too proud to admit you're a woman? Do you think admitting that will make you less credible? Don't worry about your credibility...it's shot already. This has nothing to do with your gender, and everything to do with your pride.....remaining unteachable is the surest sign of it.

 

[lifeisgood]

I am so grateful for AMR's explanation of very complex and difficult concepts. It is at the conceptual level that one wishes for clarity and he provides it.

Me too!

 

[God's Truth]

No, Paul rightfully considered everything rubbish when compared to knowledge of Christ. This comparison is what is being taught by Paul, not that education of those with knowledge of Christ is rubbish. Once more you show your inability to interpret Scripture.

You went to school to learn about Christ, and you were taught falseness. We do not have to go to school to learn about God’s Truth.

You are wrong about me, and more importantly, you are wrong about the scriptures.

I guess you think the prostitutes and tax collectors went to seminary.

Read this scripture…

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

That is what Jesus said. Jesus said that because the Pharisees and teacher’s of the law WERE NOT ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

I said I may be wrong. Thanks for clearing this up. Are you a woman? How long have you considered yourself a believer? 2 yrs? 5 yrs? 10 yrs?

I will not say if I am a man, or a woman. I have no bad feelings if you call me a gender that I am not. I enjoy it when others condemn me, yet they do not even know for sure what my gender is.
I am no baby Christian.

So studying the underlying languages from which you read English translations is not getting closer to God's truth? Do you not see the illogic of your statement? I also stated I do not recommend Strong's lexicons, so I do not read Strongs. I do recommend his concordances. You use concordances all the time on web pages. I see it from your posts in our One-on-One where you are searching for word hits. Do not be disingenuous.

I am not what you claim I am.

We do not have to learn another language to know God’s Truth.

 

[God's Truth]

redundant....Father, Son, Holy Spirit can each be called LORD/YHWH, but that does not mean they are the same. Spirit of Christ can refer to the Holy Spirit, but that does not make Him Jesus. Many verses show personal distinction, so your Spirit, spirit, Christ verse must be interpreted in light of this. There are various names, titles for the Father, for the Son (different than the Father in many cases), and the Holy Spirit. This shows their distinction vs same in every sense without compromising their common nature/oneness.

The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit all three say exactly what each other says.

There are no distinctions.

Jesus says and does only what the Father says and does.

The Holy Spirit says only what Jesus says.

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.

They are NOT distinct and different.

See John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.

 

[God's Truth]

Love involves subject and object. The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father. If they are the same person, there is no give and take love relationship, just self-love.

Jesus came to earth as a Son of Man. He suffered and died. He obeyed his Father.

You say God came as a Son of Man, and another God called the Father was in heaven.

There are not two Gods, or three Gods. There is One God. Since there is One God, and since Jesus is God in the flesh, then Jesus is the same One God as God the Father.

 

[Bright Raven]

If they are not different and distinct why does Jesus call God His Father?

 

[God's Truth]

Finite persons are one thing. Divine 'persons' are not finite. Personal (will, intellect, emotions) is the issue, not created men. This is why I use personal distinction/conscious center, not person.

"I check my beliefs with God, not with your choice commentators". GT


Your subjective, arrogant statement has been said in various ways by many false teachers who are anti-intellectual and above criticism/critique. Cultists, false religions, heretics, etc. all claim divine endorsement. The issue is proper Bible interpretation/application, not using the Lord's name in vain to endorse your unbiblical ideas!?

I guess this means that you do NOT believe you are teaching God's Truth, and that all your teachers were probably not teaching God's Truth.

You are right about that.

 

[God's Truth]

If they are not different and distinct why does Jesus call God His Father?

Because Jesus came as a Son.

 

[Lon]

You went to school to learn about Christ, and you were taught falseness. We do not have to go to school to learn about God’s Truth.

:doh: We'd all be doomed without it. I'm sure you went to school, we weren't tabula rosa's but must interact with truth. People aren't just indoctrinated or 'taught wrong.'

You are wrong about me, and more importantly, you are wrong about the scriptures.


I guess you think the prostitutes and tax collectors went to seminary.

Read this scripture…

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

That is what Jesus said. Jesus said that because the Pharisees and teacher’s of the law WERE NOT ENTERING THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.

True, but there are many examples of the Apostles being subjected to the Pharisees. One apologized after being slapped.
Going to seminary greatly prepared me for what a personal study alone could not. There are limits to being self-taught on anything. The one who is with a group will excel over and above someone self-taught.

I will not say if I am a man, or a woman.

You already did, Ma'am.

I have no bad feelings if you call me a gender that I am not. I enjoy it when others condemn me, yet they do not even know for sure what my gender is.

It probably doesn't matter all to much but you think like a woman.

I am no baby Christian.

Child-like then.

I am not what you claim I am.

Which? A woman or an imature believer? Both? I think both.
It would be okay if you weren't trying to deny either. There is nothing wrong with being a woman or a believer that has things to learn.

We do not have to learn another language to know God’s Truth.

Agreed. Does it help though? Yes it does.

AMR simply said you know how to use Bible dictionaries and Concordances, [or should].

 

[God's Truth]

The impetus is the main over the pawn but yes, there is a lot of heavy lifting archivable work here.
Example:

It little matters this was the response:

because I will not be quoting lackadaisical assertion from this debate.

"Yes Virginia, this was the definition of debating. That you think lackadaisical counterpoints is also debate is the problem :nono:

It is right up there with "Nuh Uh!" and "You are not the boss of me!" followed by "Rasberries!"

<Cue Monty Python Black Knight/flesh wound clip reel>
Quadruple amputee: "It's just a flesh wound."

I am not going to spend time reading long copy/pastes from AMR’s manuals. What does become evident from reading AMR’s long drawn out posts is how and where he starts to twist the scriptures.

 

[Bright Raven]

Because Jesus came as a Son.

If He came as the Son, how can He be the Father or the Spirit? Why do the scriptures make the distinction between the father Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[God's Truth]

We'd all be doomed without it. I'm sure you went to school, we weren't tabula rosa's but must interact with truth. People aren't just indoctrinated or 'taught wrong.'

I did not learn about Christ in Catechism. I did not learn about Christ from the other false denominations that taught me falseness. People are taught wrong.

True, but there are many examples of the Apostles being subjected to the Pharisees. One apologized after being slapped.
Going to seminary greatly prepared me for what a personal study alone could not. There are limits to being self-taught on anything. The one who is with a group will excel over and above someone self-taught.

Just because someone is taught in a group does not mean they are taught the truth.

You already did, Ma'am.

I could not care less what you think I have done. I only care what God thinks of me.

It probably doesn't matter all to much but you think like a woman.

I think like a Man.

Child-like then.

And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Agreed. Does it help though? Yes it does.

AMR simply said you know how to use Bible dictionaries and Concordances, [or should].

Studying Greek and using Bible dictionaries has not helped either of you.