Modalism is a broad general category. You beg the question with your view of it, but fail to realize you have a form of it (there are more than one nuanced modalistic views). You are the one who is unteachable because you keep misunderstanding and misrepresenting the trinity.
Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Modalism is a broad general category. You beg the question with your view of it, but fail to realize you have a form of it (there are more than one nuanced modalistic views). You are the one who is unteachable because you keep misunderstanding and misrepresenting the trinity.
God's Truth
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I am so pleasantly surprised to hear you say that. I will make a point of getting it written out soon. Thank you.
Your ego matches your ignorance. You did not get me to see that God is spirit. What you need to see is that the Father is not the Son is not the Holy Spirit, yet they are all one spirit of God.
God's Truth
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I believe there are three, and the three exist at the same time. Many would think that sounds like the trinity doctrine.
I cannot judge your heart, but I will not say all Oneness are not saved (just like I don't say all Catholics are not saved, though many are not).
Oneness is a dangerous heresy that borders on cult, but is probably a sect. It is serious to misrepresent God and His Word, but His grace can still save if you trust the person and work of Christ as God despite your ignorance.
You have a narrow view of modalism and don't want to be identified with it. Just as there is a spectrum of beliefs within Calvinism, Arminianism, Pentecostalism, etc., so there are a variety of modalistic views, including yours. There is more consensus among trinitarians and somewhat less among Arians.
You are out of your league and dismiss anything beyond a superficial level.
You still won't answer what group has the truth or what writers or leaders have influenced you.
Have you ever been UPCI? Apostolic?
If the 1 and 3 are identical in every sense, this is redundant and makes simple grammar nonsensical.
Among the frequently used theological terms it seems to be the category which best approximates your expressed position on the Godhead.
Maybe you'd prefer 'oneness'.
I think that you just don't like to be described as fitting into any category, loosely or exactly.
I don't mind it, myself. I've chosen known categories to approximately describe my theological positions, though I don't always exactly fit them, but it does help to let people know in a general way where I stand, without having to express every detail again and again.
God's Truth
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You do not have to worry about me and what I teach.
God's Truth
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Oneness is modalism.
Why would I like to be described loosely?
I know why you and the others keep calling me a modalist, it is because you think it bothers me.
I do not take the truth lightly.
God's Truth
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That is your false opinion.
God's Truth
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I got you to admit that it is right to say God is Spirit and not God is essence.
You say they are all one spirit of God. You are saying there are more than one Spirit; however, the scriptures say there is one Spirit.
No one was saying God is essence?! We agreed that God is spirit, but spirit is a description of stuff/essence/being.
My car is metal and plastic. This is the essence of my car (it is not human, not Deity, etc.).
We agree with you and Scripture, but making an essence statement if fully defensible and consistent with the biblical statement.
If you challenged him to a debate, why are you not putting any effort into it like he is?
I am saying there is one God, one spirit of God. You are jumping to wrong conclusions. What we are saying is that the Father is not the Son, not that they are not one spirit. As well, the spirit nature of God (Jn. 4:24) is an ontological (being) statement. The revelation of the person and work of THE Holy Spirit (compares to Father and Son, not to spirit, small s) is not what spirit/ontology is talking about. Father is spirit, Son is spirit, Holy Spirit is spirit (vs matter). There is only one eternal spirit. However, the other evidence is that the Father is not the same conscious center/personal distinction as the Son and Holy Spirit. Trinity is the only way to reconcile the biblical evidence without distorting and straining face value verses on all the points. ONE GOD. As long as you keep talking about 3 beings, 3 gods, 3 spirits, 3 essences, etc., you prove that you do not know what you are talking about and have lost the debate before you start it (resign now....you do not have truth on your side).
God's Truth
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Are you deliberately speaking untruths?
If the trinitarians would replace essence with Spirit they would have to change their whole doctrine.
That is nonsense speech.
The trinity doctrine says that God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit have the same essence---change essence to the word Spirit then you get the truth that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same Spirit. If you say they are the same Spirit, then you say Jesus is also God the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are three and the three are the same.
He challenged me, and you are speaking falseness about me.
You are going against your trinity doctrine when you say they are one spirit. They are one Spirit. That is what I have been trying to get you to see.
You are so confused. Now you say there are three different spirits.
If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Father who is God. If Jesus is God, and he is, then he is also the Holy Spirit who is God.
You are in so much confusion that you do not even grasp that you accuse me of your false beliefs.
Well, at least you tried to have some content to your last debate post.
It is not going against my trinity doctrine to say there is one spirit of God. You are equivocating between spirit and Holy Spirit. They are not the same thing. To say there are 3 spirits in my view is also false, confusing trinity with tritheism/Mormonism.
You have a mental block and are not thinking, so it is like talking to a wall. I expect this more from mind control cults, but it goes to show how Oneness can have this mentality.
It is not going against my trinity doctrine to say there is one spirit of God. You are equivocating between spirit and Holy Spirit. They are not the same thing. To say there are 3 spirits in my view is also false, confusing trinity with tritheism/Mormonism.
You have a mental block and are not thinking, so it is like talking to a wall. I expect this more from mind control cults, but it goes to show how Oneness can have this mentality.
God's Truth
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You want me to put on a dog and pony show as the one AMR puts on, but that will not happen.
God's Truth
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There is only One Spirit. That is what the scriptures say.
When you read about the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ, the Spirit of the Son, or the Spirit of Jesus---you are then reading about the ONE and SAME Spirit.
Huh? He is giving thoughtful substance, while you are being unresponsive overall. Pride goes before a fall.
You are confusing the uncreated eternal spirit nature of God with Father, Son, Holy Spirit. The triad relates to each other. Father/Son/Holy Spirit are in the same category.
Saying angels, demons are spirits, God is spirit (vs matter), man has a spirit, etc. is not the same as HOLY SPIRIT. Jesus sends the Holy Spirit who is spirit like the Father and Son are.
:dizzy:
Oneness is hopelessly convoluted and unbiblical. You have been misled by your unnamed false teachers (you still refuse to admit you have been influenced by writers or groups....there is no true group of believers except you?). What other odd views do you have?
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