Discussion thread for AMR and God's Truth Trinity Debate.

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godrulz

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You are wrong. The trinity doctrine does teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate and distinct. Please do not throw into the debate error about the trinity doctrine.

This is where you need AMR. AMR is the only trinitarian here who seems to know what the trinity doctrine is; he plainly states that it says it is UNEXPLAINABLE, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is SEPARATE, and DISTINCT.

Distinct means different, as you probably are well aware.

They are distinct in the sense of conscious center, not as to being/nature/substance/essence.

You think AMR/trinity is saying there are 3 substances/beings despite everyone yelling at you that there is ONE being/substance/essence, but 3 personal distinctions (not 3 gods, not 3 beings) in the ONE God. It is compound unity, not numeric separation absolutely (again, you think it is 3 pencils instead of 1 family with many members).

They are distinct in one sense, but one in another sense. You still insist, contrary to the doctrine, that they are 3 and 1 in the same sense (your view).

Again, Mormons are the ones that hold your misconceptions of the trinity, NOT Catholics or traditions. You were given creeds that explicitly corrected your wrong view (because you are not the first or last to throw out specious arguments against straw men vs actual belief).

AMR and all trinitarians reject what you reject (3 gods, 3 headed god, 3 beings), so we are on the same page on this point.
 

godrulz

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I don't need to debate either. Did you notice that I hardly debate?

But I will take all opportunity to the world explaining what we see in the world is not true Christianity.

Is it true that you still use the NWT perversion?!:madmad:
 

godrulz

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I am challenging because none of trinity believers could not refute my claim.

they sleaze out. I think that's the main reason why so many hard core trins put me on ignore because they cannot answer simple questions.

they are trained to debate non-issues.

Huh?! We answer you over and over and defend/proclaim what we believe with evidence. You do not like it, so you claim we cannot answer you?!

I have dealt with JWs and Unitarians for 35 years. If you have the genuine, the counterfeit is obvious.

Jn. 1:1 alone is sufficient to sink your ship. I bet you do not have a clue how to exegete it in light of Greek grammar and context. If you did, you would not accept NWT 'a god' lie. :duh:
 

Lon

Well-known member
In a nutshell, the debate starts with AMR stating that Jesus is fully God and man. He further stated that if we eliminate what 'not to believe' then we can rightly look after what to believe. This is a good starting place because it then allows AMR and GT to examine what tramples upon scriptural truths and allows the two of them to discuss any particular heresy.

I've looked forward to such a thread because we can use it to point others to when debating. Such means we don't have to reinvent the wheel over and over again. I can just say: Go look here at this debate.

It is unfortunate that GT doesn't understand biblical exegesis. It is important not just to 'post' verses, but to show that one rightly understands them. Exegesis is a 'show your work' demand. It is like turning in all your scratch paper in the higher math classes and turning in your rough drafts with your final draft. Exegesis means to explain why you believe verses, especially if you list many, work they way they do to 'prove' your point. As such, you need to be able to take word-for-word ideas and express why the truth you are purporting is supported from scripture.

When entering a debate, just listing scripture isn't enough, you must explain them and why you think, they support your position, and for a debate like this, usually verse for verse, at least to some degree.

Simply listing scriptures is not debate.
 

godrulz

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Many, but mainly trinity doctrine is not salvation issue, yet, Trinitarians making it such.

GT is anti-trin and I consider him saved. You are also anti-trin and I consider you unsaved.

The Deity of Christ is the salvific, essential issue (but trinity is very important as AMR argues).
 

godrulz

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There is no difference between God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is the visible of the invisible God.

This makes 100s of verses, including triadic formula ones, redundant and nonsensical. You must ignore inspired grammar to even begin to hold to your view.
 

godrulz

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Of course I do but it is not saying anything that you have to believe in the trinity to be saved.

It seems clear that trinity believers are making up their own salvation for sure. Trinity is not Jesus' idea nor His Father's.

Rom. 10 is context means to confess Jesus as LORD YHWH, not a mere sir/lord/created being. Son of God also does not mean created, but uncreated like the Father.
 

godrulz

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The trinity doctrine says there is one God, the Father, another God the Son, and another God the Holy Spirit.

The trinity doctrine SAYS their doctrine is UNEXPLAINABLE.

The Holy Spirit is the same as Jesus. In fact, the Holy Spirit takes from what is Jesus’.


John 16:14 "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.



The disciples will know the Holy Spirit when it comes, because the Holy Spirit has been living with them! Jesus has been living with them.
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

If you read the creeds given or the writings of trinitarians, you would know your first statement is NOT what is taught/believed, but explicitly denied. Again, you are refuting and mixing up tritheism (Mormon cult) and triunity (Christian trinitarian view).

If you cannot get this straight, why are you still here? You have zip credibility on this subject.
 

godrulz

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He explained that he believes in a three-headed God, or even four Gods.

He says there is God, and in God there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that they are different and distinct.

There are NOT three different Gods.

There is One God. The three are One and the same.

Lies...you now resort to ad hominem attacks and accuse him of believing things he vehemently denies. Off with your head...Knight should boot you out of the debate and declare AMR the winner.
 

godrulz

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Yeah, I understand that popular use of the term, but when one confines one's definition of the word 'Deity' to the scriptures, it is only used of the one true GOD. In the Bible it is not used of just any supernatural being. There is true Deity, the one GOD and there is false Deity, which are not GOD at all.

There is one true God by nature, but many false or so-called gods, not God by nature. Context determines true vs false (I Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 4:8).
 

mmstroud

Silver Member
Silver Subscriber
When entering a debate, just listing scripture isn't enough, you must explain them and why you think, they support your position, and for a debate like this, usually verse for verse, at least to some degree.

Simply listing scriptures is not debate.

I'm starting to think it might also be a good idea to make sure both parties of a One On One understand how a debate is conducted. Even if it isn't to be a formal debate, there should be some understanding of how an argument is made. And I mean that with all charity.
 

godrulz

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So any who disagree with some of our forefathers are out of the faith?
I strongly disagree friend. The trinity doctrine is not expressed by the men who knew Jesus. And Jesus himself disagrees with you also. John 17:3.
If you wish to hold on to the errors of the majority that is your choice, I will follow the master.


Sent from my Nexus 7

We have answered your Arian proof texts over and over. Your view creates a contradiction with Jn. 1:1; Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33; Jn. 8:58; Jn. 20:28, etc.

Repent, renounce your Arian heresy, and embrace the true Christ, the I AM, Alpha and Omega, Lord God, YHWH.
 

godrulz

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The trinity doctrine says there are three separate and distinct Gods.

God is not three different and distinct Gods.

I am going to haunt you.

The trinity doctrine DOES NOT say there are 3 separate and distinct gods (that is MORMONISM cult!). It says there is ONE GOD (spirit nature) and 3 personal DISTINCTIONS in the one spirit nature, not 3 natures, not 3 gods, not 4 gods, not 4 headed god.

You are misrepresenting trinitarians, creeds, theology books, centuries of church history.

It is called a straw man fallacy (you are attacking something we do not believe either).

I tell Mormons that they are not 3 separate and distinct gods (this is polytheism, not monotheism). I cannot tell trinitarians this about the trinity view because that is NOT what the trinity believes.

You wrongly think triune is tritheism. The former is monotheistic, but the latter is polytheistic. This is the issue between trinitarians/Oneness vs Mormons.

With JWs (who affirm monotheism), the issue is the Deity of Christ (which Oneness and trinity both affirm in addition to monotheism).

I see you have no formal education.

What group do you identify with? What are you hiding. If you are not UPCI, what are you? Surely others on the planet must hold your unique views, guru.
 

godrulz

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The trinity doctrines says they cannot explain how Jesus is God but not the Father who is God.

The trinity doctrine says they cannot explain how Jesus is God but not the Holy Spirit who is God.

I will not believe something just because you say so. Show me how Jesus is God but not the Father who is God.

The trinity doctrine also says that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are different and separate.

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not different and separate, they are always together and the same.

Study these scriptures harder: John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.

YOU say the trinity says it cannot explain this. Trinitarians say we can and do explain this. I have done it, AMR is doing it, etc.

www.bible.ca/trinity (an imperfect link, but you would rather continue saying things that are not true than be corrected by the evidence that contradicts you). The creeds explicitly deny what you are claiming. Every theology book I have read (I have over 3000 books in my theological library) contradicts you. Google would make you look bad.
 

godrulz

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Their personalities are the same.

Jesus says he only does what the Father does.

Jesus says he only says what the Father says.

How do you get that it means they are different and separate?

Father AND Son. Father WITH Son....NOT Father IS Son (your assumption, not the text).

They are absolutely one, so what applies to the Father applies to the Son in most cases. This does not mean they are the same person in the one God.

My twin sons have much in common. X and Y. X is with Y. X and Y have the same genetics, general appearance, interests, etc. The unity of F, S, HS reflects their mutual love and relationship and common nature, character, attributes. It still does not mean they are the same person (making all the verses that show them distinct in some way redundant and nonsensical to everyone except you with an agenda to retain a false view at all costs).
 

godrulz

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Stop it with the one essence and three persons. You do not answer my questions so that anyone can understand what that even means, besides meaning three different and separate Gods.

Stop it with the avoidance of answering my questions yourself.

This is a debate for trinitarians to explain in depth their doctrines, in their own words.

We cannot be faithful to Scripture without making this distinction. You plug your ears and close your eyes rather than learn to think critically. Using your approach, we would reject a ton of evidence for any given view because it is not worded in a proof text like you want it to be.
 
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