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BATTLE TALK ~ Battle Royale VI - PilgrimAgain vs. 1013

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  • #16
    Hmm, it seems like good news doesn't it. But it sure makes the work of the cross seem pointless.
    Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and it will be opened for you.

    Pro 8:17 I love those who love me. Those who seek me diligently will find me.

    ...but we are getting ahead of ourselves.

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    • #17
      Last edited by Sozo; March 12, 2005, 06:45 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Sheepdog
        I really see very little difference.

        Inclusivism teaches that all are born-again, those who are saved just know it.

        Battle Royal VII?
        Than you have a misunderstanding of Inclusivism. I hope the BR will clear this for you.

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        • #19
          Last edited by Sozo; March 12, 2005, 06:46 AM.

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          • #20
            Salvation is "available" to all men. Men can reject it and by rejecting it they will shun the salvation available to them through the atoning work of Christ.

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            • #21
              Last edited by Sozo; March 12, 2005, 06:47 AM.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Sheepdog
                That's what I believe as well. But, what does that have to do with the Inclusivism.
                Universalism is that ALL men will be saved. Inclusivism is that ALL men have salvation AVAILABLE to them but NOT ALL men will be saved.
                Originally posted by Sheepdog
                I really see very little difference.

                Inclusivism teaches that all are born-again, those who are saved just know it.
                All men are NOT born-again.

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                • #23
                  Last edited by Sozo; March 12, 2005, 06:47 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Yes it does which is why I felt to leave it at my reply
                    Than you have a misunderstanding of Inclusivism. I hope the BR will clear this for you.
                    And we are talking about Inclusivism that was made popular by Karl Rahner, CS Lewis, Clark Pinnock not the style from Millard Erickson which that God would include all men and all men would be saved.

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                    • #25
                      Last edited by Sozo; March 12, 2005, 06:48 AM.

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                      • #26
                        I'm not familiar with him although I did check his website just now.

                        Have you ever read No Other Name: An Investigation Into the Destiny of the Unevangelized by John Sanders? It is the style of Inclusivism that 1013 will be proposing and the Inclusivism I am referring.

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                        • #27
                          It's always seemed to me that if the message of the Cross is available to you (i.e. the civilized world) then accepting the message of Christ is the condition for your salvation. However, I always felt it was limiting God's salvation power to say that people who never had the opportunity to learn of Jesus CANNOT be saved. I'm not saying that's not the case, I'm just saying that I've made up my mind that God can saved whoever he wants to save and for whatever reason, however, he has given us the guidelines to ENSURE our salvation.
                          I don't see where inclusivism can be proved OR disproved Biblically, except through some pretty heavy assumptions.

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                          • #28
                            The definition of inclusivism I have seen is that while Christ is soteriologically necessary for salvation, he is not epistemologically necessary. Ie, one does not have to know who he is, or hear the Gospel, because, Inclus believe, the Holy Spirit is working on everyone (prevenient grace gone mad) even through their religion, as opposed to just those to whom the gospel is being offered.

                            For those that know, Lewis' Till We Have Faces, and the end of Last Battle re Emeth set the case. Yx said "we are talking about Inclusivism that was made popular by Karl Rahner (a Roman Catholic theologian), CS Lewis, Clark Pinnock". Notice the first tow are not Evangelicals, and the latter got his ideas from the former. Oh, and Process Theology
                            Last edited by Solly; January 9, 2003, 12:36 AM.

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                            • #29
                              Here is a question I have been toying with: "What is the effect of inclusivism on the Great Commission?"

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                              • #30
                                Yx, so, do you have anything lined up for the pre-show. You know, something to get the kids hyped. before our debate, are you gonna have the tol dancers perform. I'm all for the tol dancers.

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