Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

10 things I'm right about, whether you agree or not.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Mystery View Post
    That explains everything about the OP.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by godrulz View Post
      You could link your thread on the topic.

      Since you are dogmatically right on so many things, can I have a stock market tip?
      All hail the enlightened Mystery - he knows all! Who needs the Bible when you got Sozo!
      "Haven't seen the back of us yet..."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mystery View Post
        6. There is no such thing as "mental" illness.

        The mind is not the brain. The mind is not physical (people who reject the existence of the soul or spirit believe that the mind is physical). In order for something to be "ill" or "diseased" there would have to be a measurable diagnosis. The mind does not qualify. Brain diseases are measurable, but those things classified as mental illness are not. You cannot show OCD or schizophrenia in biological tests or autopsies. Fears are the result of an unsound mind, that needs to be renewed with the truth, not the result of a disease.
        I disagree with you here. It's true that the mind is not physical, but the brain, with all of it's neurons and neurotransmitters certainly is. Things can and do go wrong with it. I'm not saying that I believe every diagnosis out there, but we have to be careful not to ignore real problems people have. Take the following PET scans:

        Do you disregard these kinds of brain dysfunction?
        For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another!
        Galatians 5:13-15

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Becky View Post
          I disagree with you here. It's true that the mind is not physical, but the brain, with all of it's neurons and neurotransmitters certainly is. Things can and do go wrong with it. I'm not saying that I believe every diagnosis out there, but we have to be careful not to ignore real problems people have. Take the following PET scans:

          Do you disregard these kinds of brain dysfunction?
          Hi Becky!

          I affirm that there are brain diseases, but like I said, the mind is not the brain. There are no diseases of the mind. Things do go wrong with the brain, but depression is not a brain disease. It is not a disease at all. Anxiety can make you sick, and it can show up on scans (as you pointed out) with variances in brain activity. In fact, all kinds of emotions can change brain activity, but they are not diseases. That is what the medical profession has been told, and that is what they tell their patients, but the evidence does not support it. There is no biological test to determine that someone has depression.

          I don't really want to make several long posts that no one will read, but allow me to give some basics from a biblical perspective. I will start another thread for open discussion Here

          Also, I can provide you with several books and articles from some of the leading medical professionals in this country that have debunked the pseudo science of psychiatry. If there is a legitimate problem with the brain, then treat the brain, but that is not what is being done regarding these so-called "mental illnesses". In fact, you only have to go to the websites of anyone who supports the ideas that these "illnesses" exist. They will tell you that counseling is very effective in treating them. Ask your doctor how effective "counseling" is on a real disease. Ask them how effective counseling is on curing diabetes or cancer.


          I have spent many years studying this, and I can assure you that the idea of mental illness is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated on man.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mystery View Post
            Oh, yeah.
            Um.... No.
            "Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something that needs our love" ~ Rainer Maria Rilke

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mystery View Post
              Hi Becky!

              I affirm that there are brain diseases, but like I said, the mind is not the brain. There are no diseases of the mind. Things do go wrong with the brain, but depression is not a brain disease. It is not a disease at all. Anxiety can make you sick, and it can show up on scans (as you pointed out) with variances in brain activity. In fact, all kinds of emotions can change brain activity, but they are not diseases. That is what the medical profession has been told, and that is what they tell their patients, but the evidence does not support it. There is no biological test to determine that someone has depression.

              I don't really want to make several long posts that no one will read, but allow me to give some basics from a biblical perspective. I will start another thread for open discussion Here

              Also, I can provide you with several books and articles from some of the leading medical professionals in this country that have debunked the pseudo science of psychiatry. If there is a legitimate problem with the brain, then treat the brain, but that is not what is being done regarding these so-called "mental illnesses". In fact, you only have to go to the websites of anyone who supports the ideas that these "illnesses" exist. They will tell you that counseling is very effective in treating them. Ask your doctor how effective "counseling" is on a real disease. Ask them how effective counseling is on curing diabetes or cancer.


              I have spent many years studying this, and I can assure you that the idea of mental illness is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated on man.
              You are mistaken about how "disease" is identified. "Disease" is identified by symptoms and signs, not phyisical deformaty. Symptoms are things the patient complains of and signs are things the practitioner observes, like temperature and pulse rate. The symptoms of diabetes are excessive urination, excessive thirst and excessive eating. As you can see, these are behaviors that the patient performs. A practioner observes the behaviors and makes the diagnosis.

              A depressed person has: changed sleep pattern, usually insomnia, decreased appetite frequently with weight loss, feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, lack of energy, enjoyable activities are no longer fun, concentration and decision making are increasingly difficult, suicidal ideation, frequently with attempts to end their own life, agitation, and sometimes physically slowed movements. A person with 5 or more of these symptoms is diagnosable as depressed. A practioner observes the behaviors and makes the diagnosis. Just like a physical illness, because it is a physical illness.
              "Not everything that is clever, is true."

              - - St Ephiram of Syria - -

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Sealeaf View Post
                You are mistaken about how "disease" is identified. "Disease" is identified by symptoms and signs, not phyisical deformaty. Symptoms are things the patient complains of and signs are things the practitioner observes, like temperature and pulse rate. The symptoms of diabetes are excessive urination, excessive thirst and excessive eating. As you can see, these are behaviors that the patient performs. A practioner observes the behaviors and makes the diagnosis.

                A depressed person has: changed sleep pattern, usually insomnia, decreased appetite frequently with weight loss, feelings of helplessness, hopelessness, lack of energy, enjoyable activities are no longer fun, concentration and decision making are increasingly difficult, suicidal ideation, frequently with attempts to end their own life, agitation, and sometimes physically slowed movements. A person with 5 or more of these symptoms is diagnosable as depressed. A practioner observes the behaviors and makes the diagnosis. Just like a physical illness, because it is a physical illness.
                That is a bold face fabrication, and you know it. You can play the same game with astrology and psychics.

                You can get ideas about diseases from symptoms that the patient expresses, but diseases are real, not imagined.
                Last edited by Mystery; October 28th, 2007, 07:08 AM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  What do you mean by "real"? I have a feeling you mean physical. If mind is conceptual, then of course mental disorders will be conceptual as well; and I expect what you're calling an "imagined illness" is the disordered thought that marks mental illness or dysfunction.

                  Also, if you think mind is wholly independent of the brain, admitting that the brain can be physically ill but denying that that has any impact on mind, then how do you explain injuries to the brain disturbing individuals' ability to think, remember, emote, reason?
                  "Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something that needs our love" ~ Rainer Maria Rilke

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mystery View Post
                    1. A Christian cannot lose salvation.

                    2. The sacrifice of Jesus was not "limited", but for all men, for all time.

                    3. God wants all men to be saved, not just a predetermined "elect".

                    4. Paul did not struggle with sin post conversion.

                    5. The creation was a literal 6 days (24 hours).

                    6. There is no such thing as "mental" illness.

                    7. Time is a measurement between two events.

                    8. Jesus is God manifested in the flesh.

                    9. No man is justified by works

                    10. Salvation is an exchanged life, not a changed life.


                    I can agree to that.
                    Lo, the angel of darkness did say to me: Nay, do not fear me, I am not the great liar, but am called the author of confusion; what of me is confusing? Is it mine logic or mine knowledge? Regard my logic, regard my knowledge; worship your God; I am not your god, but an angel. Fear me not.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                      You could link your thread on the topic.

                      Since you are dogmatically right on so many things, can I have a stock market tip?

                      Kimberly-Clark

                      SCI
                      sigpic

                      .....O LORD my God, in You I put my trust. Psalm 7:1
                      .....To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul.
                      Psalm 25:1

                      Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. ~ Leo Buscaglia

                      The best portion of a person’s life -- are the little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and love. ~ William Wordsworth

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Balder View Post
                        What do you mean by "real"? I have a feeling you mean physical. If mind is conceptual, then of course mental disorders will be conceptual as well; and I expect what you're calling an "imagined illness" is the disordered thought that marks mental illness or dysfunction.

                        Also, if you think mind is wholly independent of the brain, admitting that the brain can be physically ill but denying that that has any impact on mind, then how do you explain injuries to the brain disturbing individuals' ability to think, remember, emote, reason?
                        Greetings Balder!

                        You and I have hashed this out in the past, and I'm not really that interested in doing so again.

                        However, here are some books I recommend on the subject that will give a fairly good synopsis of my views. Having discovered them recently, they have done an excellent job of reinforcing what I already knew to be true. I'm sure you can order them from your library.

                        Blaming the Brain - Elliot Valenstein, Ph.D. (Highly recommended)

                        Myth of Psychotherapy - Thomas Szasz

                        Myth of Mental Illness - Thomas Szasz (a must read!)

                        Manufacture of Madness - Thomas Szasz

                        Mad In America - Robert Whitaker

                        Making Us Crazy, DSM: The Psychiatric Bible and the Creation of Mental Disorders - Herb Kutchins and Stuart A. Kirk

                        The ADHD Fraud: How Psychiatry Makes “Patients” Out of Normal Children - Fred A. Baughman Jr., MD

                        Manufacturing Victims - Dr. Tana Dineen (This is a great read!)

                        If you are serious about understanding why I say what I do about this subject, just take the time to read one of these books, and then we can further our discussion.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Mystery,

                          I just looked on the web and read a number of Szasz's views. I do not disagree with some of his social criticism of psychiatric practice, the pathologizing of certain behaviors, etc. I'm familiar with some of these arguments through the work of Michel Foucault. But I think he goes too far and generalizes too much. While some of the values of scientism do influence the interpretation of certain types of behavior, at least by some mainstream practitioners (labeling spiritual phenomena as manifestations of schizophrenia, for instance), I think he is going too far when he says that all of the things currently labeled "mental illness" are just behaviors which are not socially accepted, for one reason or another. People really do find themselves acting compulsively and unconsciously, having internal mental conflicts which they cannot navigate or solve on their own. The "self" and our mental structures do not exist absolutely, in some unchanging fashion for all time: they are things that grow and develop over time, and thus having at least some structural components, different things (events, abuses, physical problems) can impinge upon and disrupt this development. The earlier in one's development these things happen, the greater the disruption or disorder appears to be -- the more foundational.

                          You may know that I prefer an integral approach to life, one which honors personal/soul/psychological issues, physical/biological issues, interpersonal/cultural issues, and interobjective/social/systemic issues equally, not confusing the phenomena or issues or appropriate modalities in one of these areas for another. That is one reason why I was asking you about what you were labeling as "real" (in relation to the question of illness). As an approach which deals with mental, conceptual, psychological issues, psychology will naturally have a different range of phenomena to deal with than biological science. I think reductionism in either direction -- only biological phenomena are real or important, or only mental/spiritual phenomena are real and important -- is mistaken, and I also think it is misguided to believe that these things have absolutely no relation to one another. Either approach -- reductionism or absolute dualism -- is non-integral, and in my opinion, will lead to the confusion that appears to be present in Szasz's analyses.

                          Best wishes,

                          Balder
                          "Perhaps everything terrible is in its deepest being something that needs our love" ~ Rainer Maria Rilke

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mystery View Post
                            I have spent many years studying this, and I can assure you that the idea of mental illness is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated on man.
                            Yet depression can manifest itself in physical illness - as can anxiety, etc. as even you state above. Do you also realize that these so called "mental illnesses" can be the result of a brain injury as well, or other physical illness? Do you also realize that the brain can malfunction, such as in the case of true ADHD? Do you realize that death can occur as a result of mental illness, such as in the case of the anorexia? Do you realize that developmental disability and mental illness many times go hand in hand? Do you really think victims of pica eat nails and feces because they lack integrity?

                            So, what would you do with them, I wonder Mystery? How do you cure what does not actually exist? At least psychiatrists can treat these conditions, if nothing else. You - you apparently have harsh words for it...
                            "Haven't seen the back of us yet..."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Some of these issues are semantical.

                              We can certainly find fault with psychology and questionable concepts and practices. There is a trend to label everything a mental illness to promote a pill to fix it.

                              Francis Schaeffer rightly observes that man will be psychologically dysfunctional when isolated from God. Psychology has limited insights with limited value. Only regeneration and a relationship with God will make man whole in spirit, soul (will, intellect, emotions), and body.
                              Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                              They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                              I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                              Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                              "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                              The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                                Some of these issues are semantical.

                                We can certainly find fault with psychology and questionable concepts and practices. There is a trend to label everything a mental illness to promote a pill to fix it.

                                Francis Schaeffer rightly observes that man will be psychologically dysfunctional when isolated from God. Psychology has limited insights with limited value. Only regeneration and a relationship with God will make man whole in spirit, soul (will, intellect, emotions), and body.
                                Being "psychologically dysfunctional" is not a disease. Schaeffer has good advice.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X