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Conversation with Knight about losing faith

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  • Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
    My perspective agrees as well. Part of the Christian tradition that I found appealing in years past was the accepting and positive nature surrounding their belief system. That is not reflected here, at all.
    Yes, but that "positive nature surrounding their belief system" failed to convince you to put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, didn't it?

    Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I've talked to several Christians here privately. I trust them.
    Christians or those who claim to be Christians? Are you judging them because they're sweet and kind and accept everyone? Are you trusting in those people?


    Originally posted by "annabenedetti View Post
    Yes, this forum has been a damaging place for me when it comes to faith.

    The fact is that yes, I'm losing my faith.
    Maybe you're losing your faith in people.....as you should.

    What I'm seeing, Anna, both with you and Quetzal is that you are both looking to people to build up a faith that should not be built. A faith built on a faulty foundation can never stand.



    Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
    I appreciate your posts and your perspective. Don't be afraid to reach out if you need an ear to vent or whatever.
    And, don't reach out to someone who has no faith of his own. He's looking in the wrong places, too. He's always so disappointed in these "so called Christians"....they fail him.

    Originally posted by Mocking You View Post
    I gotta ask--what kind of "faith" are people losing that you are asking Knight about?

    That means from Knight's viewpoint other people "losing their faith" in whatever extra-Biblical, man-made doctrine is a good thing, doubly so if they come to believe in Jesus, and Jesus alone, for their salvation (which comes by grace through faith.)
    Here. It IS actually a good thing, when you give up on looking to others...when you give up on looking within yourself. You will never find what you're seeking, and you will always be disappointed.

    Your faith must be in Jesus alone, as Mocking You says.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by patrick jane View Post
      . I know because I was catholic
      Me too.
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      • Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        If I spoke about them, I'd be blasted into oblivion by a fair number of so-called Christians.
        That is a valid fear.

        I have encountered many people that are like that, both in real life and online.

        Your reasons do not need to be published for everyone to see, but you do need to find a Christian to talk to that can keep your private life private but is not afraid to speak the truth to you.

        If possible, find someone in real life to talk to about these issues.

        You were listed as a Catholic for a time, have you considered going to a priest and discussing these matters?

        If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
        I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        Some who'd say I was never Christian to begin with,
        I do not believe in OSAS, but do believe that every believer will undergo one or more trials of faith.
        Whenever you go through a trial of faith, you have the choice to make to continue to believe despite the oppression, tribulation, and mocking that come your way.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        I've talked to several Christians here privately. I trust them.
        There are Christians on this site that can be trusted.
        Some of them would not be on your list of people you think you can trust.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        The fact is that yes, I'm losing my faith.
        Thank you for finding the courage to admit it.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        And from most people here I'd expect only mockery and insults, there are plenty of examples right here in the thread.
        I am sure you expected nothing but mockery and insult from me as well.
        I reserve those types of responses to people that are puffed up with pride.
        I do not mock anyone that is able to open up about a serious problem, like you have here.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        Yes, this forum has been a damaging place for me when it comes to faith. There are people here that I care about very much, and it has nothing to do with my relationships with them and everything to do with the corporate Christian message here, from top to bottom.
        TOL is biased towards people with the same set of beliefs as the owner, but it is also a place where people can challenge those beliefs and any other beliefs they want to.
        I believe TOL is more about allowing people to challenge beliefs than it is about establishing some kind of orthodoxy.
        If your beliefs have been challenged, that is a good thing.

        If you are undergoing a crisis of faith because your beliefs have been challenged, then it is time to stop and search out the truth.

        Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
        And while you and I've had our go-rounds here many times, I do appreciate that you actually addressed the issue.
        I hope you stick around after you work out your crisis of faith, because I would like to have more go-rounds with you, whether we are both on the same side of an argument or are on opposing sides.
        Learn to read what is written.

        _____
        The people who are supposed to be experts and who claim to understand the science are precisely the people who are blind to the evidence.
        ~ Dr Freeman Dyson

        Comment


        • Originally posted by PureX View Post
          I don't believe anyone's faith is in crisis, here. Just the opposite. I think some people come here and see how weak and helpless all this self-righteous religiosity really is, and their understanding of faith is suddenly forced beyond it. I'm sure it's disconcerting to look in the 'rearview mirror' and see that traditional dogma that one has believed in all their life receding into the hardened dark little nut that it always was, but the view ahead will be far more kind, expansive, and bright, once the eyes clear and adjust to the light of a new day.

          The truth be told, most intelligent human beings need to lose their faith to ever really find it. I've got no worries about any of the several folks over the years I've seen come on TOL with a "crisis of faith". Because all they were losing was something they had long outgrown, anyway. And I know that will free them up to find a much more expansive and effective kind of faith, if they want it.
          Wow.... that was well said.
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          Comment


          • Originally posted by Granite View Post
            ....you simply don't have a clue what you're talking about.
            That's entirely possible.
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            • Originally posted by Knight View Post
              So you want me to fake empathy????
              Liberals do.

              Would being disingenuous would make me a better person??
              To a liberal, yes.
              They thrive on illusion.

              Why don't you tell her to fake getting along with me??
              Liberals don't take kindly to putting the shoe on the other foot.

              We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
              They already know monsters exist.
              We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
                I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.
                this ^

                serving others

                turning aside from selfishness to selflessness

                this is where anna will find Christ


                not in whining about how horrible others are, but by serving others, as horrible as they might be

                Comment


                • maybe she'll come back to this
                  Originally posted by ok doser View Post
                  anna - do you have faith that Christ will gather in all of His lost sheep, regardless of how butthurt they may have become on the internet?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                    knight is not responsible for anyone
                    it is your fault
                    if
                    you lose your faith
                    you can't blame anyone
                    knight has given us a chance to discuss our beliefs
                    and
                    for that we owe him our thanks

                    who will you blame
                    if
                    you lose your faith
                    I don't owe Knight anything. And he doesn't owe me anything.

                    An eye for an eye baby.

                    Comment


                    • Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?

                      the more I think about this question the madder I get
                      already said it was a compound question
                      and
                      for that alone it should be rejected
                      but
                      the worse part is it contains a false premise
                      that
                      this forum could cause one to lose their faith
                      and
                      for most here, that means their salvation
                      so
                      my question for anna
                      is
                      will anyone lose their salvation through no fault of their own?


                      btw anna, great thread
                      a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                        the more I think about this question the madder I get
                        don't get mad

                        get even

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by annabenedetti View Post
                          This attitude is astounding to me. Does it reflect your views as a Christian as well? If I could post a poll, I would. I'm interested in what other Christians have to say, and why.


                          Knowing you try your hardest to get people to hate God, who the hell cares what you think.
                          Jesus saves completely. http://www.climatedepot.com/ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

                          Titus 1

                          For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped

                          Ephesians 5

                          11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by chrysostom View Post
                            Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?

                            the more I think about this question the madder I get
                            already said it was a compound question
                            and
                            for that alone it should be rejected
                            I don't have a lot of time right now, but I'll try to get through this with you. I only agreed with you to a point, but I didn't say why, and I should have. It's not really a compound (double-barreled) question, although I can see how you can read it that way.

                            But there's no "and" in the sentence, so there aren't two options. The question to Knight was: "Does it bother you if even one person loses his faith because of your forum?"

                            the worse part is it contains a false premise
                            that
                            this forum could cause one to lose their faith
                            and
                            for most here, that means their salvation
                            so
                            I don't consider that a false premise.

                            my question for anna
                            is
                            will anyone lose their salvation through no fault of their own?
                            Answering that would mean 1. my belief in what constituted salvation would be different from quite a few and 2. that I still believed there was a salvation. I'm not able to answer at this time.


                            btw anna, great thread
                            For you, maybe.

                            Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by genuineoriginal View Post
                              That is a valid fear.

                              I have encountered many people that are like that, both in real life and online.

                              Your reasons do not need to be published for everyone to see, but you do need to find a Christian to talk to that can keep your private life private but is not afraid to speak the truth to you.

                              If possible, find someone in real life to talk to about these issues.

                              You were listed as a Catholic for a time, have you considered going to a priest and discussing these matters?

                              If this is not an option, I would recommend finding a local ministry that caters to people normally shunned by society, like a soup kitchen that helps the homeless or a prison ministry that deals with convicted criminals.
                              I have found the people in those ministries will be there when you need to talk but few of them will attempt to condemn you for what you are going through.


                              I do not believe in OSAS, but do believe that every believer will undergo one or more trials of faith.
                              Whenever you go through a trial of faith, you have the choice to make to continue to believe despite the oppression, tribulation, and mocking that come your way.


                              There are Christians on this site that can be trusted.
                              Some of them would not be on your list of people you think you can trust.


                              Thank you for finding the courage to admit it.


                              I am sure you expected nothing but mockery and insult from me as well.
                              I reserve those types of responses to people that are puffed up with pride.
                              I do not mock anyone that is able to open up about a serious problem, like you have here.


                              TOL is biased towards people with the same set of beliefs as the owner, but it is also a place where people can challenge those beliefs and any other beliefs they want to.
                              I believe TOL is more about allowing people to challenge beliefs than it is about establishing some kind of orthodoxy.
                              If your beliefs have been challenged, that is a good thing.

                              If you are undergoing a crisis of faith because your beliefs have been challenged, then it is time to stop and search out the truth.


                              I hope you stick around after you work out your crisis of faith, because I would like to have more go-rounds with you, whether we are both on the same side of an argument or are on opposing sides.

                              Thank you. I sincerely appreciate your words.

                              Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Son of Jack View Post
                                Walk away, friend. You'll be better off.

                                You don't know how happy I am to see you. I understand. I'll write later, when I'm able.

                                Tried and waited then got tired, that's about it

                                Comment

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