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  • #76
    Did you see The Last Temptation of Christ?

    There is a part, where Jesus is asked where God lives, above in heaven or where?

    Jesus says that when he looks at everything, he sees God.
    The person responds, "What?? You see God in a fly?"
    And Jesus says, "Yes. The fly has wings that make him float. He helps things decay. So when I look at a fly, I see the reflection of God."
    "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
    rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
    you see that we are the earth,
    we are the consciousness of the earth.
    These are the eyes of the Earth.
    And this is the voice of the earth."

    Joseph Campbell

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by beanieboy
      Did you see The Last Temptation of Christ?

      There is a part, where Jesus is asked where God lives, above in heaven or where?

      Jesus says that when he looks at everything, he sees God.
      The person responds, "What?? You see God in a fly?"
      And Jesus says, "Yes. The fly has wings that make him float. He helps things decay. So when I look at a fly, I see the reflection of God."
      Uh... I don't put much stock into godless hollywood crap. I don't see God in the toilet nor do I see Him in mindless Hollywood garbage.
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      • #78
        Originally posted by beanieboy
        Sometimes, people get so convinced that they are right, that they will even kill in the name of God, as we have seen throughout the centuries with Christianity and other religions.
        Is killing in the name of God wrong or right?
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        • #79
          God is everywhere, and a part of all things.
          He's a part of you as much as he is a part of me.

          Personally, I would rather see God in the mosquito, who provides food for bats, than curse God for mosquitos, or think they are a curse.

          Everything is of and from him. Everything is interconnected.

          Unfortunately, many people like to see themselves separate from the world altogether, and so, disrespect it, polluting its waters, without worrying about the fish that we will eat, the water we will need to drink, or any of the ramifications that come with abusing our environment.

          It's all connected.
          "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
          rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
          you see that we are the earth,
          we are the consciousness of the earth.
          These are the eyes of the Earth.
          And this is the voice of the earth."

          Joseph Campbell

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by beanieboy
            God is everywhere, and a part of all things.
            He's a part of you as much as he is a part of me.

            Personally, I would rather see God in the mosquito, who provides food for bats, than curse God for mosquitos, or think they are a curse.

            Everything is of and from him. Everything is interconnected.

            Unfortunately, many people like to see themselves separate from the world altogether, and so, disrespect it, polluting its waters, without worrying about the fish that we will eat, the water we will need to drink, or any of the ramifications that come with abusing our environment.

            It's all connected.
            Are you a prophet of this "god"?

            Do you speak for him/her/it?
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            • #81
              Originally posted by Knight
              Is killing in the name of God wrong or right?
              Buddhists believe that one should never harm a sentient being. Some even go so far as to avoid stepping on worms. While that seems extreme, if one could be mindful of worms, wouldn't they never dream of killing a human being?

              I can't find anywhere in the NT where anyone calls for killing people, and I think that we have enough murder to know whether it is right or wrong.

              One who kills in the name of God is a wolf dressed as a sheep, eating the rest of the herd.

              It boggles the mind how many TOLers are focuses on killing others in the name of God far more than saving them and bringing them to their God. God didn't ask for them dead or alive.
              "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
              rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
              you see that we are the earth,
              we are the consciousness of the earth.
              These are the eyes of the Earth.
              And this is the voice of the earth."

              Joseph Campbell

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Knight
                Are you a prophet of this "god"?

                Do you speak for him/her/it?
                We all do.

                "Out of the mouth of babes", you know?
                God speaks through anyone he chooses, even his "enemies."

                Everything that is said, I take to "god" and ask about it.
                Sometimes it doesn't ring true, and other times, it is, and then it repeats from one person to the next in a weird kind of way, like the universe is conspiring to make a point. I'm always amazed when it happens.

                A friend once told me that one shouldn't judge others on appearances. It was repeated in my African Dance Class by the instrutor in a story. Then I saw a commercial for a bank saying that one's character can't be judged by what can be shown on paper, and was illustrated by an overweight man entering a tango class and judged by the other dancers, until he started dancing, and was better than they were.

                It's like that. God speaks wherever he feels like it, and is reflected wherever he chooses.

                I have grown to doubt "coincidence."
                "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                you see that we are the earth,
                we are the consciousness of the earth.
                These are the eyes of the Earth.
                And this is the voice of the earth."

                Joseph Campbell

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by beanieboy
                  I can't find anywhere in the NT where anyone calls for killing people
                  You can't????

                  Maybe your NT is missing most of the pages?

                  I can give you tons of examples.. here are a couple to get you started.

                  Matthew 18:6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

                  Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by beanieboy

                    It's like that. God speaks wherever he feels like it, and is reflected wherever he chooses.

                    I have grown to doubt "coincidence."
                    So... you pretty much just make all of this up or what?
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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Knight
                      You can't????

                      Maybe your NT is missing most of the pages?

                      I can give you tons of examples.. here are a couple to get you started.

                      Matthew 18:6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

                      Romans 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

                      So, what do you think the bible is saying?
                      I think it is saying, "we all deserve God's wrath. Everyone of us."

                      But you are saying that we should put to death backbiters, haters of undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful, people who envy, people who covet (wish they had what their neighbor has), those who are disobedient to their parents, and gossips, and people who are sexually immoral?

                      Why not just kill everyone except yourself?

                      And is this the Good News? That you are going to execute the majority of people in the world?
                      "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                      rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                      you see that we are the earth,
                      we are the consciousness of the earth.
                      These are the eyes of the Earth.
                      And this is the voice of the earth."

                      Joseph Campbell

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Knight
                        So... you pretty much just make all of this up or what?
                        If one person says it, then you read it, then you hear it again, and then again, at what point do you have to realize that the coincidence is so overwhelming that something much more strong is going on?

                        I am much more open to the possibility, and so, God takes advantage of that.

                        There are others that God speaks through, (out of the mouth of babes), but because they have an idea of Closed Canon, and God only speaks through the bible, they bind God up in the book. God speaks when he wants, what he wants, and through whom. And when you learn to understand God's voice, you know when people are way off base.

                        But to limit God would be to limit myself, as well as being rather silly.
                        "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                        rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                        you see that we are the earth,
                        we are the consciousness of the earth.
                        These are the eyes of the Earth.
                        And this is the voice of the earth."

                        Joseph Campbell

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Knight
                          Matthew 18:6 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
                          [/b]
                          I believe this is condemning people for drawing others to sin or stumble, and explaining the seriousness of it.
                          "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                          rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                          you see that we are the earth,
                          we are the consciousness of the earth.
                          These are the eyes of the Earth.
                          And this is the voice of the earth."

                          Joseph Campbell

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Romans 1 also says this:

                            21Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.

                            There are many here who claim to know what God is like, and that God is a murderous tyrant, (human), when I think he is much more complicated than that.

                            Even you are quick to point out the murderous wrath of God in the NT.

                            Is that all God is to you? An executioner?
                            Jesus taught love and compassion and forgiveness, and didn't try to put himself in a governmental place to have authority to kill people right and left, which he could have.

                            He spent his love extending love, changing lives of the lost, exhalting the humble, and humbling the exhalted.

                            Jesus was very cool.
                            "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                            rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                            you see that we are the earth,
                            we are the consciousness of the earth.
                            These are the eyes of the Earth.
                            And this is the voice of the earth."

                            Joseph Campbell

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              from www.whosoever.org
                              commentary about the Romans passage;

                              This passage has been used by some Christians to make an issue over how "unrighteous" and sinful homosexuals are. In fact, it has been used to support the view that AIDS is the "penalty of their error which was due." What is fascinating about this kind of application is that it is totally at odds with what, I believe, Paul was really saying. IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF ROMANS CHAPTER ONE YOU MUST READ ROMANS CHAPTERS ONE THROUGH THREE. The outline is as follows:

                              I. The Gospel is for EVERYONE, Jews and Gentiles. (1:16)

                              II. Why? Because God's wrath is against ALL unrighteousness. (verse 18).

                              II. The Gentiles need the Gospel. (1:28-32) The examples of their "uncleanness" include idolatry and homosexual acts which are either connected to or resulting from idolatry.

                              III. But the Jews are just as unrighteous as the Gentiles. (2:3)

                              IV. "All have sinned" and are "justified (made right with God) FREELY by God's grace (unearned love) through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ." (3:23-24)

                              While Paul is certainly not favorable toward the homosexual acts that he is writing about it is interesting to note that Paul classifies them "unclean" which is not necessarily a "moral" precept. (According to the Holiness Code lobsters and shrimp are "unclean" also.) He may be pointing out that though the Jews are different than the Gentiles in that they are ritually "clean" (according to the Old Covenant) they are still just as much in need of the grace of the New Covenant.

                              Let's look at some of the verses in this section:

                              Verse 27b "And receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due". Is Paul here saying that those who committed homosexual acts were punished in some physical way...as in venereal disease? Or could "uncleanness," being cut off from the Old Hebrew Covenant, be the penalty of the Gentile's error?

                              28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to adebased mind, to do those things which are not fitting..." People often take this to mean one of the following things:

                              * Since homosexuals didn't retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind.
                              * Since the Gentiles were idolatrous God gave them over to a debased mind of homosexuality. However, I believe that Paul was saying the following:
                              * "Since the Gentiles did not retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a debased mind. The debased mind is NOT homosexuality but a mind that is centered on unrighteousness, hence the listing of what the Gentile mind is full of in verse 29.
                              * 29-32 This list of "unrighteousness" is being applied to all Gentiles, not Gentiles that commit homosexual sex acts. It is the Gentiles "who are worthy of death." These verses are really just an exposition of verse 18.
                              * 26-27 Another interesting point to consider is that people often use verses 26-27 to prove that Paul used an argument from "nature" to prove that homosexual activity was wrong. However that kind of usage of the word "nature" is highly unlikely as Paul usually uses the word "nature" or "natural" to mean not what "Mother Nature" does but instead he means "the previously accepted common usage". Nature is not a great teacher about ethics and humans are nowhere called in scripture to emulate it. What is more, homosexual activity DOES go on in the animal world.

                              It must be remembered also that Paul was referring to homosexual ACTS, not homosexuals. AND NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HOMOSEXUAL ACTS PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT... NO ONE KNOWS THE BACKGROUND... We must ask ourselves "what type of homosexual acts was Paul talking about?" Was he talking exclusively about homosexual acts connected with idolatry? (Perhaps that was the only kind of homosexual activity he was familiar with.) Was he talking about pederasty? Was he talking about homosexual acts committed with slaves? Was he talking about people of heterosexual orientation committing homosexual acts? Just exactly what type of homosexual acts was he concerned with? Do people have the Right to just ASSUME that these verses were a blanket condemnation of homosexual sex in every context?

                              In my personal opinion Paul was referring to same sex sexual acts committed in idolatrous worship by people he regarded as heterosexual. Even the most conservative theologian can only give their opinion as to what type of same sex acts Paul was referring to. No one can state that God clearly condemns all homosexuality activity based upon these verses. It is just too vague.

                              As for me, based on the context of Paul's writing in Romans chapters 1-3 I choose to believe that God's New Covenant of grace embraces those who believe in Jesus; being a Jew doesn't make you better than a Gentile; being a heterosexual doesn't make you any better than a homosexual. Romans chapters one through three strike at the very heart of self-righteous pride. It is amazing that some Christians continue to lord their own sense of righteousness over gays and lesbians as if their heterosexual sex acts make them somehow better, or less in need of grace. We are all in need of grace and we ALL have that grace in Jesus Christ. [2]

                              Source: OCRT: Bible and Homosexuality

                              Source: Same Gender Sexual Behavior and the Scriptures
                              This paper is provided as a service of the Metropolitan Community Church of Topeka, authors Rev. Jonathan Loppnow and Rev. Paul C. Evans. It may be reproduced freely as long as the entire text is reproduced and unaltered, all attributions are left intact and it is not sold for profit or included in a for-profit publication. Copyright © Jan. 7, 1998
                              "If you will think of ourselves as coming out of the earth,
                              rather than having been thrown in here from somewhere else,
                              you see that we are the earth,
                              we are the consciousness of the earth.
                              These are the eyes of the Earth.
                              And this is the voice of the earth."

                              Joseph Campbell

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by beanieboy
                                Jesus was very cool.
                                Yet according to you He was tragically in error.

                                beanie how could you consider someone "cool" that preached that all other religions were wrong (including yours) and only His was correct?

                                John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

                                Acts 4:10 “let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole.11 “This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’12 “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

                                Beanie you need to repent from your false gods and humble yourself before the only true God of the universe - His name is Jesus.
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