toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

Doormat

New member
So would it also be possible to be spiritually lost, spiritually found, and then spiritually lose my way again?

No. See Romans 11:16-24

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
No, Not at all; you cannot be saved then lose it. God knows who is worthy of salvation, it is just that simple.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM


toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?






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they can change their mind all they want.

They still have the gift of salvation/eternal life/righteousness/holy spirit.

Eternal life is eternal.

Meeting the conditions for receiving salvation, Romans 10:9-10, are not fickle or shallow requirements

It took thought and a deliberate decision to do that

A decision which God honors for eternity

oatmeal
 

zippy2006

New member
Yes:

OSAS? Where to start? :idunno: Reading your Bible will cure OSAS.


Mt 7:21
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.​

Mt 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”​

Mt 24:13
But he who endures to the end shall be saved.​

Luke 8:13
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.​

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;​

Phil 3:12-14
Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.​

1 Cor 4:3-5
But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.​

1 Cor 9:27
But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.​

1 Cor 10:12-13
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.​

1 Cor 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.​

1 Cor 15:2
by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.​

Heb 4:1
Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it.​

Heb 4:11
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.​

Heb 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.​

Heb 10:26-27
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.​

Rom 11:17-24
And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?​

Ezekiel 18:21-22, 24
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.​

Rev 22:14
Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.​

Rev 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.​

1 Timothy 3:6
not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.​

2 Timothy 2:12
If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us.​

2 Peter 2:20-21
For if, after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.​

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

1 John
 

Bright Raven

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
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The simple answer No. We are eternally secure in Christ. As said earlier, How do you become unsaved?
 

SeraphimsCherub

New member
GOD would never contradict HIS own SELF. Be the type of god who would go about SAVING people already knowing that they shall lose their salvation. And then...if GOD were that type of god. That when HE who is supposedly suppose to be one's savior. As their SAVIOUR" Just watch them drown in their own perdition when time came that they should fall away. That 'type" of god would be the very devil of hell.
Of course Salvation is both ETERNAL AND SECURE FOREVER.
 

jimfoxy

New member
Seems to me to be impossible to lose salvation. I know the standard arguments pro and con, but that is where I come out. I think the weight of scripture supports the view of eternal security.
 

IMJerusha

New member
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM


toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?






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So, my Brother, you found a big spoon today, eh? :chuckle: The answer to your question as I have been given to understand God's word is yes and no.

The theory looks good on paper, but Christ will never reject you.

There are those out there that attend church and become instructed inthe way of Christianity. They become 'enlightened' and 'tasted' the gift as Hebrew 6:4-6 says.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

They had a taste but they were not transformed by the experience. These are non-committal believers--and the churches are full of them. They have even made a profession of faith, but did not experience genuine saving faith.

In my own life I was transformed. I am the atheist that never will happen because of my life experiences as a believer. I see the world through the eyes of a Christian because of this transformation. It isn't just a taste--it's complete submersion. It is a change that cannot be reversed.

John 5:24 -Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Inzl, if I may present another translation more closely related to the original texts:

"For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God's light; they tasted heaven's gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God's word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame."

In both translations, there is no mention of never having been transformed.

Consider 2Peter 3:17-18 "Therefore dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen."

In the parable of the sower and the seed, there is also no mention of the seed not being good seed or seed that has been transformed but rather seed that grew or didn't based on the nourishment provided ie. grace and knowledge of Yeshua. Yeshua states that only those who do His Father's will will have entrance into the kingdom of heaven. His statement does not negate what he is about to endure for the sake of all humanity, wanting no one to perish, and He did not revise His statement following His resurrection. What Yeshua did stands for all time; He will never reject any who come to Him nor can anyone take His away from Him. What we do, however, in the face of God's grace and knowledge of Yeshua will also stand. Yeshua's words to John are clear: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." And John is clear as well, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." What do we say to Yeshua, John, Peter and Paul, that we know better? I won't, but each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
 

LoveOfTheTruth

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Banned
The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM

toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?


"If salvation was but a mindful decision, was such a one saved?"

However, for those who have been BORN ANEW there is a big "if"!

"And you, who were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight.

IF you continue in The Faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from The Hope of The Good News, which you have heard, and which WAS preached to every creature which is under Heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister". (Col 1:21-23)

Father Help! and HE does......

Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
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Lon

Well-known member

toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?

What if someone rejects their spouse but the other person, who is in authoritarian charge of the court system, refuses to divorce?

Similar? No?
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
While some may argue that it is at least theoretically possible, in that we have the freedom of will, I find it impossible to believe anyone who has God in their life would ever desire to leave Him.

Sad, but true...the reality is that some do apostasize contrary to sanity.

Exhibit A: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs.../09/charles-templeton-missing-jesus/?comments

The OSAS loop hole will be to say they were never really saved (some vs all cases) or that they are still saved despite rejecting the person and work of Jesus?!
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
It doesn't matter if they can reject salvation. Christ CANNOT reject them. This is the issue. One thing remains: His love NEVER fails!


Using this logic, Christ should unconditionally save everyone despite their rejection of Him?

Heb. 6:4-6 the stern warning about the possibility of apostasy cannot be rationalized away.

Just as the saving power/grace of the Spirit can be rejected before conversion (vs universalism), so the keeping power/grace of the Spirit can be rejected after conversion (vs OSAS/POTS).

OSAS only makes sense in a deterministic/monergistic system like Calvinism. Free will relational theism based on love and relationship does not cause, coerce salvation or perseverance.

Death seals destiny, though, so I don't think it is possible post-mortem to change one's mind about heaven. The sinful, fleshly influences will be gone and we will have full light, unlike now.
 
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