IMJerusha
New member
Well now, on that we can agree! When Yeshua states something outright, however, you can take that to the bank!
toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Well now, on that we can agree! When Yeshua states something outright, however, you can take that to the bank!
I know, I used the wrong word!
If, we're not misinterpreting it to back up a false teaching.
I actually agree with GM on this one. I believe in OSAS, but I believe that Heaven is not a prison. If, upon arrival, the presence of God is not something you can tolerate, I figure you would have the freedom to go elsewhere and be miserable.
That's, an interesting take!
That is true of both churches. The difference is the ministry. There are Jews and Gentiles in the Body of Christ. There are Jews and Gentiles in the gospel of circumcision.
And you need to back up a page.
Galatians 2
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
You have just shown that there is Jew and Gentile in this church. So don't try to say it the same just to a different group.
Because she is carnal minded. She sees the flesh and makes judgement by it.
And I insist, nobody is going to say send me to hell instead.
Doormat
New member
Good point
glorydaz
Well-known member
It is, exactly. And those same claims made against those who have been crucified with Christ, quickened and raised with Him brings slander against the very salvation provided by Christ's death and resurrection. How does such a claim show forth the riches of God's grace and His kindness toward us? It doesn't, it makes a sham of God's grace instead. :nono:
Ephesians 2:5-7
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Put simply, it advocates the falsehood that God is NOT ABLE to keep us unto the day of redemption. Whoever is not fully persuaded of that truth does not have the faith needed for justification before God. Lack of assurance of one's salvation is a sure sign one needs to examine himself whether he even be IN THE FAITH.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Simply put....you ignored the entirety of Hebrews and picked out what you liked. This pick and choose reading of the Word of God is why we see so much ignorance being displayed on this thread. :chuckle:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yeah, I guess I am. I wonder if they'll be claiming the Antichrist was saved before he was lost, too?
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes, He did.
For those who don't walk away....wonder of wonder and miracle of miracles, He creates in us a clean heart and renews a right spirit in us. We become His sons...no longer street urchins. We are now kept by the Power of God.....which, sadly, you doubters deny.
Paul states in Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." What some fail to recognize; there are two realms that exist, side by side. The physical realm, where we live, and are restricted by the passage of time. On the other hand, the Spiritual realm where there exists no such limitation.God can see the past, present and future, all at the same time. Why? Because, he's not restricted by the element of time. He, knows who will place their faith in His Son, and receive He's mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life. John in, Revelation is allowed a glimpse of what will be transpiring, at the Judgment.
Some here are unable to grasp the idea that, a saved person can exist (spirit wise) in the, Body of Christ while living in their physical (fleshly) bodies here in this world. A true, born-again Spiritually person, in essence has a dual citizenship. In their flesh, they are capable of choosing to sin, at the same time, in the Spiritual realm, they cannot and do not, commit sin. Why? Because they are in Christ and Christ is in them. Christ cannot sin therefore, those that are in His body, cannot sin. Our spirit dwells within Christ, He is perfect/sinless therefore, God the Father sees us the same way. Christ shed His blood and resurrected for ALL our sins, 2000 years ago. Once one has placed their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, they're not held to the same standard as the unsaved. They are now, free in Christ, cleansed of ALL sin (past, present, and future) and guaranteed life eternal with God. After all, they are now considered (through Christ) a child of God. They cannot lose their salvation through an act of sin done by the body, due to the fact; they have NO sin in the spirit, which is in the spiritual realm. Now, as far as, disobedience goes, God, reserves the right to discipline His child, who is disobedient in the flesh. We must always keep in mind, however, that we do NOT sin, being positioned in the spirit in Christ, but the flesh is capable of disobedience, and that, God will deal with us here, while we're in the flesh! In conclusion, no one who is truly saved by the Spirit of God can lose their salvation through sin done by the body of flesh (they have no sin to lose in the spirit).The believers cache in the spirit has no record of sin, but the body of flesh has sin applied and the judgement for it is death. The physical body will die, and be raised again in Christ and join together on the last day. In our spirit essence we've been, emptied of sin by Gods Grace!
Some here are unable to grasp the idea that, a saved person can exist (spirit wise) in the, Body of Christ while living in their physical (fleshly) bodies here in this world. A true, born-again Spiritually person, in essence has a dual citizenship. In their flesh, they are capable of choosing to sin, at the same time, in the Spiritual realm, they cannot and do not, commit sin. Why? Because they are in Christ and Christ is in them. Christ cannot sin therefore, those that are in His body, cannot sin. Our spirit dwells within Christ, He is perfect/sinless therefore, God the Father sees us the same way. Christ shed His blood and resurrected for ALL our sins, 2000 years ago. Once one has placed their faith in Christ as Lord and Savior, they're not held to the same standard as the unsaved. They are now, free in Christ, cleansed of ALL sin (past, present, and future) and guaranteed life eternal with God. After all, they are now considered (through Christ) a child of God. They cannot lose their salvation through an act of sin done by the body, due to the fact; they have NO sin in the spirit, which is in the spiritual realm. Now, as far as, disobedience goes, God, reserves the right to discipline His child, who is disobedient in the flesh. We must always keep in mind, however, that we do NOT sin, being positioned in the spirit in Christ, but the flesh is capable of disobedience, and that, God will deal with us here, while we're in the flesh! In conclusion, no one who is truly saved by the Spirit of God can lose their salvation through sin done by the body of flesh (they have no sin to lose in the spirit).The believers cache in the spirit has no record of sin, but the body of flesh has sin applied and the judgement for it is death. The physical body will die, and be raised again in Christ and join together on the last day. In our spirit essence we've been, emptied of sin by Gods Grace!
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99lamb
New member
Free Will in the confines of an ordered structure, is not really free will: you can chose Heaven or Hell, there are no other choices.
Free Will independent of imposed consequences would be something else entirely.IF man had the ability to live outside of God's constructed 'world' to do as he sees fit, then we have an entirely different dynamic. The choices made in this scenario would render God's judgments meaningless, for they would have no power over man.
Man is created inside of God's order, his free will to chose is limited by man's own limitations of understanding and knowledge. Would a man if he fully understood and knew what eternity meant chose Hell - eternal torment? The idea of choice or free will without full knowledge of the consequences is problematic. Further more, the only way free will and choice would have any merit would be if the consequences did not apply, man has no where else to go, he is powerless over his future destiny, if the only scenario is one in which he must chose Heaven or Hell, there is no third option. Well, unless you are a Sadducee and then you're just worm food, or a J.W. and then you just soul sleep, a Mormon might if they achieve exaltation go to another planet, a Bahia could do spiritual progression, a Buddhist try again and again..well you do have choices, but not under this construct.
Free Will independent of imposed consequences would be something else entirely.IF man had the ability to live outside of God's constructed 'world' to do as he sees fit, then we have an entirely different dynamic. The choices made in this scenario would render God's judgments meaningless, for they would have no power over man.
Man is created inside of God's order, his free will to chose is limited by man's own limitations of understanding and knowledge. Would a man if he fully understood and knew what eternity meant chose Hell - eternal torment? The idea of choice or free will without full knowledge of the consequences is problematic. Further more, the only way free will and choice would have any merit would be if the consequences did not apply, man has no where else to go, he is powerless over his future destiny, if the only scenario is one in which he must chose Heaven or Hell, there is no third option. Well, unless you are a Sadducee and then you're just worm food, or a J.W. and then you just soul sleep, a Mormon might if they achieve exaltation go to another planet, a Bahia could do spiritual progression, a Buddhist try again and again..well you do have choices, but not under this construct.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Our Lord quoted Psalm 41 for good reason. One's enemies are the subject here...those who have access but are false friends...betrayers as Judas was. To say there is a Calvinist or a Satanic Bible only proves you don't pay close attention to God's Word when you form your opinions. Yes, Judas was chosen for the very act of betrayal in the same way God raised up Pharoah to persecute the children of Israel. Jesus knew from the beginning who believed NOT and who would betray Him. That is the reason Judas was chosen.
Psalm 41:9
Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.