toldailytopic: Which requires the greater faith, atheism or theism?

[xAvarice]

I do not have any faith that their isn't a God (although I can see why you think I should seeing the punishments and charges that have been drummed up) I live in a world where Zeus, Yahweh or Jehovah haven't contacted me, and I don't trust the hallucinations of my fellow brother and sister.

Of course, Christians shouldn't have a problem with atheism due to the fact that a lot of their arguments state that god is beyond the material realm and quite hard to perceive, or so I've heard.

If God had contacted me, it'd take greater faith to be atheist... but currently it takes none. I believe there isn't a god due to the lack of evidence I personally see, that's not my problem.

 

[Rusha]

Always.

Explain ...

Did you take your bottle or rattle and point it to the sky as a way of confirming you knew your God existed?

At the age of 9 months, did you toddle down the hallway, find the family Bible and confirm that you understood it? What did you say?

I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.

The first time the subject of God came about was when I asked my mother when I was five ... "mom, how did we all get here?"

When told God created the first human beings, my question was "Who is God? Who created God? What is God? How do you know He exists?"

Feel free to explain how *you* would answer these questions.

Frankly, I think it is rather silly to make suggest that infants, toddlers and small children have this knowledge.

 

[xAvarice]

I think that "God-shaped hole" is our endless quest to know the unknown. We humans survive and thrive by our ability to understand and control our environment, rather than by our speed, or power, or stealth, etc., so that the unknown presents a big threat to us. And we fear it deeply. That fear of the unknown looms so large for us that it becomes an "all-powerful entity": one which we cannot understand and control.

Religions are at their most base level a method of imagining that we have a way of controlling that "entity". It's the 'virgins in the volcano' phenomena. Having 'personified' that all-powerful unknown into an 'entity', we imagine that if we can somehow appease it, maybe it will not cause us harm.

I was going to jump in and say the same thing until the third paragraph where you stole the words from my mouth, fine then - have it your way, tea party on your lonesome.

I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.

I only very slightly disagree, I think an infant has the ability to imagine anything as true, they know no bounds. You cannot teach a side of metaphysics to a 2 year old, nor should you try.

But you're right, a child cannot be born with a specific impulse towards rejecting a specific god or accepting them.

 

[Eeset]

Explain ...

Did you take your bottle or rattle and point it to the sky as a way of confirming you knew your God existed?

At the age of 9 months, did you toddle down the hallway, find the family Bible and confirm that you understood it? What did you say?

I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.

The first time the subject of God came about was when I asked my mother when I was five ... "mom, how did we all get here?"

When told God created the first human beings, my question was "Who is God? Who created God? What is God? How do you know He exists?"

Feel free to explain how *you* would answer this question.

Frankly, I think it is rather silly to make the suggest infants, toddlers and small children have this knowledge.

You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.

 

[xAvarice]

You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.

How did you know it was the Christian god? Cross-referencing ability didn't come to me at 3.

 

[Rusha]

You seem to not understand the word "always".

Actually I understand the word just fine.

You want me to place a date on my earliest memories?

Being that your *suggestion* insinuates that from the time we come into this world, we all KNOW that your God exists, that request is not unreasonable.

I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.

I don't believe it. It is not normal to question our existence and the beginning of everything around us.

 

[sky.]

I have never regarded my relationship with God to be a matter of faith. I was born this way.

Me too. It's as if I looked up at the sky one day and said "look what God made". I can not remember a time when I did not associate the God of the Bible as the one who created everything.

That was the beginning of faith. How I got it I don't know but I thank God.

 

[Eeset]

Being that your *suggestion* insinuates that from the time we come into this world, we all KNOW that your God exists, that request is not unreasonable.

Rusha I made no such insinuation. I simply stated what is true for me. What is true for you or anyone else is actually of little concern to me. And that is probably why I sometimes run afoul with certain "believers" when I say things they consider heresy.

 

[xAvarice]

Me too. It's as if I looked up at the sky one day and said "look what God made". I can not remember a time when I did not associate the God of the Bible as the one who created everything.

That was the beginning of faith. How I got it I don't know but I thank God.

I also collect non-sequiturs.

 

[Rusha]

Rusha I made no such insinuation. I simply stated what is true for me. What is true for you or anyone else is actually of little concern to me. And that is probably why I sometimes run afoul with certain "believers" when I say things they consider heresy.

So why are you incapable of placing an age on when you knew outside of *always*?

 

[Eeset]

So why are you incapable of placing an age on when you knew outside of *always*?

Always means always. What's not to understand about that. You want a specific age? OK, at birth. Now you will probably say I am lying because people don't remember their own birth. Call me a liar but always means always. Surely we can debate each person's earliest memories but to what avail?

 

[PureX]

You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.

I don't doubt you. I had some sort of a god-concept from as far back as I can remember as well. But that's understandable having been raised in a religious household, I suppose.

 

[Rusha]

Always means always. What's not to understand about that.

Have you *always* existed? When did you not *always* exist? What's not to understand about this question?

You want a specific age?

:duh:

OK, at birth.

Cool. What else do you remember from birth? Did you mother cry from joy? Were you shocked at how cold the room was when you were delivered? Were you angry at the doctor and nurses working over you to make sure your color and breathing was fine? When the doctor slapped you on the rear (to make you cry), was your first impulse to slap him back?

Now you will probably say I am lying because people don't remember their own birth. Call me a liar but always means always. Surely we can debate each person's earliest memories but to what avail?

I *try* to avoid calling others liars ... let's just say I believe you made the *claim* prior to really thinking it through.

 

[Eeset]

I *try* to avoid calling others liars ... let's just say I believe you made the *claim* prior to really thinking it through.

With all due respect Rusha why would I have to think through something I have always known. I am getting the impression that you want to argue what I know because you have no such knowledge. Why should that bother you? Shirley it is not important that everyone should know the same things. :idunno:

 

[john w]

I do not have any faith that their isn't a God (although I can see why you think I should seeing the punishments and charges that have been drummed up) I live in a world where Zeus, Yahweh or Jehovah haven't contacted me, and I don't trust the hallucinations of my fellow brother and sister.

Of course, Christians shouldn't have a problem with atheism due to the fact that a lot of their arguments state that god is beyond the material realm and quite hard to perceive, or so I've heard.

If God had contacted me, it'd take greater faith to be atheist... but currently it takes none. I believe there isn't a god due to the lack of evidence I personally see, that's not my problem.

So, George Washington did not exist?

 

[Sherman]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 9th, 2013 05:00 AM

toldailytopic: Which requires the greater faith, atheism or theism?

Atheism. Athiesm requires that you believe that the universe exists without a God and that life evolved on its own without an intelligence behind it. It takes a great leap of faith to believe that something like the eye or the brain could evolve on its own.

I used to intertain agnosticism during the years I hung with the intellectual crowd--mainly because it was fashionable among the intellectual set. I didn't want to be the oddball among the gifted talented students. It required more faith on my part to hold to the agnostic/atheist world view. I didn't have enough faith, so I abandoned my flirtation with atheisim.

It is much easier to believe the account in the Bible--In the beginning God created.

 

[Rusha]

With all due respect Rusha why would I have to think through something I have always known.

You don't *have* to do anything.

I am getting the impression that you want to argue what I know because you have no such knowledge.

While I don't believe the *claim* you made, there is no reason to argue about it. You are free to claim whatever you will.

Why should that bother you?

Bother, no.

Shirley it is not important that everyone should know the same things. :idunno:

So knowing what you claim to know since birth is not really important to you? Okay.

 

[Eeset]

So knowing what you claim to know since birth is not really important to you? Okay.

Actually you are incorrect. But it seems to concern you a great deal. That I find strange.

 

[Ps82]

I see it differently.

Hello bybee,
That's okay ... but I see it that the atheists are just doing what comes naturally.

Now, I do think that they perhaps have more difficulty explaining why they believe the way they do than Christians. After all, the intricacy of creation reveals that there is a creator.

 

[Rusha]

Actually you are incorrect..

About the claim you made of knowing there was a creator since BIRTH?