toldailytopic: Hate the sin, love the sinner?

[bybee]

If not a fool, if not wise...what then?

I am open to learn from those I respect.
Those who spit venom are not in that group.

 

[Traditio]

Plato tells me that the good man hates nobody:

"Then to injure a friend or any one else is not the act of a just man, but of the opposite, who is the unjust?

I think that what you say is quite true, Socrates" (Republic, Book I).

 

[Architect]

Laziness causes one to hate the sinner, not just the sin. That's not the only attribute assigned to such warrant. On the other hands, a false relationship with love causes others to love the sinner because they love sin. Try going only halfway down a water slide: gravity, water, momentum, the slide, the thrill, and everybody else waiting in line, who are next to enjoy this water slide ride, won't let you: neither will sin.

The book of Proverbs will tell you to not let bad company corrupt good morals, because bad friends is like an even bigger water slide. Because you love your sinner friends, you will begin to start liking their sins and join in because everybody's doing it.

On the other hand, some people hate sin so much that they begin hating the sinners, too. They become ineffective at discipleship, evangelism, at living, at encouraging, at teaching, rebuking, in anything, really, because their unbalanced fear for sin has mutated into a type of fear of man, rather than a fear of God.

It is good to hate sin and to love the sinner. However, it is really hard to balance between the two.

Luke 10:27

The problem is, and as JA has indirectly alluded to, we cannot perfectly love like God can perfectly love. God can truly love a sinner (emotionally, physically, spiritually) and hate sin. We have to look at this "proverb" (not actually found in the Book of Proverbs, of course) differently. The way we as humans love is through action. While we most likely will not have an emotional love for a child molester, we can love them by forgiving them. (As Christ originally already forgave at the Cross.)

Contrary to popular belief, the opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is apathy.

I'm not sure I agree with this... I see the point you are trying to make, but both love and hate are (in my mind) equal and opposite dispositions accompanied by respective attitudes and actions toward the receiver. Apathy is neither love, nor hate. In fact, if the opposite of love is apathy, the opposite of hate is also apathy... Are love and hate the same?? I agree that you cannot both love and hate emotionally. But I would argue you can both love and hate through actions, even though they are the opposite of each other.

Then again, I am no psychologist...

Josh

 

[King cobra]

I am open to learn from those I respect.
Those who spit venom are not in that group.

Even if said venom is in defense of one's Savior?

 

[bybee]

Even if said venom is in defense of one's Savior?

Our Savior has no need of a venomous defense.

 

[King cobra]

Our Savior has no need of a venomous defense.

Are you familiar with the Bible? Our Savior’s words: “dogs” and “swine” (Matt 7:6) seem quite venomous to me.

“The Horn” used the Lord’s name in vain. I called him a fool. You defended him saying, “No, he is not a fool.” Both are foolish, even evil. You, and he, are to be rebuked.

I love you both enough to rebuke you.

 

[bybee]

Are you familiar with the Bible? Our Savior’s words: “dogs” and “swine” (Matt 7:6) seem quite venomous to me.

“The Horn” used the Lord’s name in vain. I called him a fool. You defended him saying, “No, he is not a fool.” Both are foolish, even evil. You, and he, are to be rebuked.

I love you both enough to rebuke you.

Yes, The Horn did use the Lord's name in vain.
Neither he nor I are dogs or pigs.
Your rebuke of me is superficial since you do not know me.
I reject your love.

 

[King cobra]

Yes, The Horn did use the Lord's name in vain.
Neither he nor I are dogs or pigs.
Your rebuke of me is superficial since you do not know me.
I reject your love.

I know you now more than previous to this conversation. And, I have lost respect for you. Makes me sad.

 

[Lighthouse]

Who the Hell do you think you are to enforce conformity to your views through threat of violence, moron?

What threat of violence?

punishment b4 trial??

hmmm... not what my Church teaches..

Why do you assume Hell is punishment?

 

[bybee]

I know you now more than previous to this conversation. And, I have lost respect for you. Makes me sad.

My fellow poster, your respect or lack thereof is meaningless to me.

 

[King cobra]

My fellow poster, your respect or lack thereof is meaningless to me.

Then why bother telling me this. Seems kinda venomous.

 

[PyramidHead]

Then why bother telling me this. Seems kinda venomous.

lol whatsa matter, you can give it but you can't take it?

 

[King cobra]

lol whatsa matter, you can give it but you can't take it?

lol Apples and oranges.

 

[Town Heretic]

Forget "Hate the sin but love the sinner". Conservatives hould just learn to mind their own goddam business !!!!!
I'm sick of self-righteous conservatives busybodies going around and judging everybody.
The Bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged".
People are always trying to police other people's morality while behaving immorally themselves.

You know what I'm sick of? People who've been here long enough to know the rules and understand the edit function but don't avail themselves of either. Good grief. You should sit in a corner and contemplate a better course of action and address. This isn't acceptable.

 

[Dionyshish]

What does it mean to be in the Body of Christ?

It means to think like him, i.e. don't cast the stone, defeat your enemies with love etc.
2000 years later the christians are too materialistic and/or fearful to put this into practise.

 

[agnostic_gnostic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj1BuNmhjAY
Derrida speaks of unconditional love and says that it is not about a person's characteristics. God is known as "I AM". God wants us to concentrate on divine love ( based on Being not essence). Unfortunately, we are encased in characteristics and by that choice have declined the free gift.
Pride = identifying with one's characteristics. Ironically, if one is not prideful one is moral and does not commit immoral acts.

 

[Rusha]

Forget "Hate the sin but love the sinner". Conservatives hould just learn to mind their own goddam business !!!!!
I'm sick of self-righteous conservatives busybodies going around and judging everybody.
The Bible also says "Judge not lest ye be judged".
People are always trying to police other people's morality while behaving immorally themselves.

You're a judgmental little fool aren't ya!?

No, he is not a fool.

Your post is conflicting

I have to agree with The Horn. Whole-heartedly.

Horn is a hypocrite and every bit as judgmental as those he judges.

Every now and again, he will get something right ... but rarely. However, his faulty accusations and zeal as a pro-abort advocate outweighs most of everything else he posts.

 

[Rusha]

Are you familiar with the Bible? Our Savior’s words: “dogs” and “swine” (Matt 7:6) seem quite venomous to me.

“The Horn” used the Lord’s name in vain. I called him a fool. You defended him saying, “No, he is not a fool.” Both are foolish, even evil. You, and he, are to be rebuked.

I love you both enough to rebuke you.

Bybee is NOT evil ... in the least. She is a shining example for all Christians to follow.

 

[Rusha]

Hate the sin, love the sinner? Does anyone really care if others hate what they perceive to be the sins of a nonbeliever? As long as I am left alone, I don't.

However, claims of "I hate you because I love you" really do have a fake ring to them. It is impossible to love someone through hatred.

 

[coulter4president]

, and never letting anyone in to help-- when help really was needed.
So, now-- I am honest with God. Sorry God. I've got no clue. Please show me.
According to Titus 2:11-14-- God's Grace teaches us all we need to know.
According to 2 Peter 1:2-4-- God's Grace has provided everything we need to live the godly life, in Christ.

Well, that's my two bits, from my 32+ years of experience....
Grace be with you....

you are doing many good things and i wish there was more of that stuff going on... in my world and the world in general..

But you say you haven't seen anyone get saved (i didn't read your entire post... running out of time, etc) For one, you don't know that anyone has accepted Christ or not... just what the ppl talk about.. which i guess could indicate quite a lot... but anyhow... no one knows anyone's heart, as you know.. .but God...


Also, salvation is not a one-time thing.. Someone there could have received Christ yrs ago.. & doesn't think he needs to "be saved" again... a false belief.. this Once Saved Always Saved thing.. VERY false... nohwere to be found in the Bible.. (much less Christ's Church...)

It is good to be charitable but sometimes we need to warn ppl of Hell.. not fun, but important to do.. Jesus said that FEW find the narrow way that leads to eternal life.. St Mt Chapter 7 is probably one of the most interesting passages in the Bible...

anyway... i am not saying i am good at this.. cuz I'm not, but sometimes we have to tell ppl something to the effect that if they don't stop (this or that) & get right with God, they are going to Hell... because that is what Jesus said to ppl, more or less.. He said to obey the Comamndments.. and to give up everything to the poor and follow Him... (i guess He meant giv up what you dont need to survive?)

anyway... I get tired of all this lovey dovey stuff when ppl preach... Jesus said some scary things... like how even those who do mighty deeds in his name aren't necessariy going to make it..

being nice & friendly to everyone is politically correct..

but since when is PC ... a big thing in the eyes of God??