toldailytopic: Do you support the Personhood movement?

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Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 24th, 2009 10:48 AM


toldailytopic: Do you support the Personhood movement? Personhood is changing the face of the pro life movement, where do you stand on personhood?






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Nathon Detroit

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For those of you who are not aware of what the Personhood movement is about you might want to read the following....


What is personhood?

When the term “Person” is granted to a human being, it refers to the presence of a particular set of characteristics that grant that individual certain rights such as the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. In other words, to be a person is to be protected by a series of God given and constitutionally protected rights.

This terrifies the pro-abortion foes!!!
They know that if we clearly define the pre-born baby as a person then they will have the same right to life as all Americans do! This Amendment has the promise plugging the “Blackmun Hole,” a startling admission that if personhood could be established for the pre-born, the arguments in Roe would collapse.

Justice Harry Blackmun wrote in the majority opinion for Roe v. Wade in 1973, “The appellee and certain amici [pro-lifers] argue that the fetus is a ‘person’ within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment. In support of this, they outline at length and in detail the well-known facts of fetal development. If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant’s case, of course, collapses, for the fetus’ right to life would then be guaranteed specifically by the Amendment.”

During Blackmun’s time, the “well-known facts of fetal development” were a far cry from what is known today. Ultrasonography and DNA testing were yet to be invented. In 1973, most held that “life” began at “quickening,” or when a woman first feels movement of the baby in the womb at 18 to 24 weeks. Some even held to the “Recapitulation Theory,” the scientifically debunked notion that the human baby underwent his entire evolutionary cycle in the womb, being first a simple one-celled creature, then later a fish, then later a mammal, then finally a human, which of course now seems absurd.

The science of fetology in 1973 was not able to prove, as it can now, that a fully human and unique individual exists at the moment of fertilization and continues to grow through various stages of development in a continuum (barring tragedy) until natural death from old age.

If the Court considers the humanity of the pre-born child, for which there is overwhelming scientific evidence, it could restore the legal protections of person-hood to the pre-born under the 14th Amendment as Blackmun foretold, stopping abortion in a few and then in all fifty states!

Explanation from abort73.com;
There are essentially two issues which must be resolved concerning unborn embryos and fetuses. The first is, "Are they human beings?" The second is, "Should they be recognized as persons under the law?" We've already established that there is no debate on the first question. It is a matter of plain, objective science. Embryos and fetuses are fully and individually human from the moment of fertilization on. If this were not true, if unborn children were not demonstrably human, there would be no need to even talk about rights of personhood. "Removing a fetus" would be the moral equivalent of pulling a tooth. This, however, is not the case, and so the debate must now enter the political arena.

The case against abortion


There is a very real sense in which the need to answer this second question is, in itself, an absurdity. If you look up the word "person" in your average dictionary (we'll use Webster's), you'll find something like this:

Person n. A human being.

A person, simply put, is a human being. This fact should be enough. The intrinsic humanity of unborn children, by definition, makes them persons and should, therefore, guarantee their protection under the law. For more than thirty years, however, this has not been the case. The situation we are left with is this. In America today, there is a huge and singular group of living human beings who have no protection under the law and are being killed en masse every day. Is that not astounding?! It is astounding, but not wholly unprecedented.

There have been at least two other instances in American history in which specific groups of human beings were stripped of their rights of personhood as a means of justifying their horrible mistreatment. African-Americans and Native-Americans both felt the brunt of a system which denied their humanity, stripped their personhood and subjected them to horrors beyond measure. While the legal framework that made such injustice possible has now been removed, it remains firmly in place for unborn Americans.

There remains one, and only one, group of human beings in the U.S. today for which being human is not enough. The inconvenience of their existence has resulted in a legal loophole of shameful proportions. What is a person? A person is a human being (unless, of course, you haven't been born yet, in which case we'll define personhood in any way possible so as to exclude you, kill you and forget you).

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The Horn

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Do I support the personhood movement ? No way Jose !
This is nothing but a blatant attempt to deny women reproductive freedom , make abortion illegal , and turn women into baby-making machines whether or not they have the means to support a child or not , or whether a pregnancy would threaten their health or lives .
To define personhood from conception is stupid . And there is absolutely no way to enforce a personhood law anyway.
Those who think this will be good for America are pathetically deluded . Passing dangerous , unjust , unenforcable and counterproductive laws like this is WRONG . It's a recipe for catastrophe for poor women and their families in America .
If we are going to do something about the abortion problem we must do much more to support poor pregnant women financially so that they will be far less likely to seek and obtain abortions, which is something they will do whether abortion is legal or not . And we must encourage all sexually active people , married or single , to use contraceptives and condoms to prevent as many unwanted pregnancies as possible .
Just look at poor countries around the world where abortion is
illegal . Abortion is rampant there , and far more take place every year than in countries which allow reproductive choice .
This foolish and dangerous personhood movement must be stopped at all costs .
 

Rusha

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Do I support the personhood movement ? No way Jose !

Of course you don't. :yawn:

This is nothing but a blatant attempt to deny women reproductive freedom , make abortion illegal , and turn women into baby-making machines whether or not they have the means to support a child or not , or whether a pregnancy would threaten their health or lives .

Turn women into baby-making machines? Exaggerate much? :kookoo:

Please explain how, outside of rape, ANYONE can force a women to become pregnant? Forcing women to not snuff out the life of the unborn baby they willingly had a part in conceiving does not equate to forcing women to become pregnant.

To define personhood from conception is stupid . And there is absolutely no way to enforce a personhood law anyway.

Really? Then why do you seem so perturbed over something you claim won't happen? :think:

Those who think this will be good for America are pathetically deluded . Passing dangerous , unjust , unenforcable and counterproductive laws like this is WRONG . It's a recipe for catastrophe for poor women and their families in America .

Do only poor women have abortions? Do only poor women commit crimes? IF you are poor, would it be okay to kill your born children, rob a bank or anything else that would make a poor person's life easier for them?

If we are going to do something about the abortion problem we must do much more to support poor pregnant women financially so that they will be far less likely to seek and obtain abortions, which is something they will do whether abortion is legal or not .

So we should go ahead and support women and tell them in the next breath it is okay to kill their unborn child?

Supporting women during and after their pregnancies is something I have always advocated and will continue to advocate for. However, I will never show any kind of support for the type of women who use abortion as the *birth control of choice*. We all know that this is what abortion comes down to ... selfish, irresponsible women and men who are too uncaring and unfit to raise a family pet, much less a child. Being that that is the case, they need to just have themselves permanently fixed and be done with it.

And we must encourage all sexually active people , married or single , to use contraceptives and condoms to prevent as many unwanted pregnancies as possible .

That's a real nice sentiment and all, however, we all know that the only reason sexually active people do NOT use contraception is because their contraception of choice is abortion.

Just look at poor countries around the world where abortion is illegal . Abortion is rampant there , and far more take place every year than in countries which allow reproductive choice .

So what's your point? That the women who live in these other countries are stupid enough to go through with illegal abortions anyways? That is no point at all. :hammer:

This foolish and dangerous personhood movement must be stopped at all costs .

Only those who wish to kill their unborn children while still in their womb are in danger by the personhood movement. Big deal.

Too bad, so sad for them.
 

Rusha

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Yes ... I support the Personhood Movement. Pregnancy, like many other conditions, is completely avoidable. It's just too bad that in this day and age that we need extra laws enforced to protect children from their own mothers (and fathers).
 

Punisher1984

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for November 24th, 2009 10:48 AM


toldailytopic: Do you support the Personhood movement? Personhood is changing the face of the pro life movement, where do you stand on personhood?






Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

No I do not - as I see no reason why a fetus could be classified as a "person."
 

Nathon Detroit

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What are you going to do when the US Supreme Court finds personhood unconstitutional?
The same thing that would have been done if black slaves personhood was ruled unconstitutional..... keep fighting. Unlike you, we aren't quitters.

When something you believe in gets ruled unconstitutional what do you do? :think:
 

chrysostom

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The same thing that would have been done if black slaves personhood was ruled unconstitutional..... keep fighting. Unlike you, we aren't quitters.

When something you believe in gets ruled unconstitutional what do you do? :think:

you get conservative judges on the court so laws against abortion will not be found unconstitutional
 

chrysostom

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So, are you saying... you wont support Personhood until all the judges on the supreme court are conservative?

no, I am saying the only realistic approach to eliminating legal abortions is to get conservative judges on the court
 

Punisher1984

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∅2L84U;2201746 said:
At what point did you first consider yourself a person?

I consider the following attributes to indicate personhood:

- self-awareness
- ability to function independent of a host organism (can breathe, feed and move on own accord)
- ability to express and act on will

A fetus possesses none of these traits, thus I do not consider it a "person."
 
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