Tithing: Is it Biblical?

[God's Truth]

God's throne will be on the new earth, so why wouldn't angels be there too?

Revelation 21
The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

Revelation 22:3 The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

[Right Divider]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. When you say the body of Christ has to do with restoring order in heaven, do you mean that we will not live on the new earth? Do you believe we will spend eternity in heaven?

I'm not completely sure as the Bible is not explicit about it. But Paul does tell us that we will judge angels and angels to not "live" on the earth.

[Freedm]

The body of Christ has to do with restoring order in heaven and not with Israel's earthly kingdom.

I'm not sure what you mean by that. When you say the body of Christ has to do with restoring order in heaven, do you mean that we will not live on the new earth? Do you believe we will spend eternity in heaven?

[Right Divider]

So when you say "The gentile nations will service Israel" does that include the church? aka. will we service Israel?

The body of Christ has to do with restoring order in heaven and not with Israel's earthly kingdom.

The body of Christ is not a nation. The body of Christ is NEITHER Jew NOR Greek, NEITHER male NOR female... etc.

[Freedm]

It depends on what you mean. Only believing Israel will enter the restored kingdom of Israel. The gentiles nations will service Israel and both will be blessed.

So what do you think Paul meant in Ephesians 2 when he said we are now fellow citizens?

Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household

Did he not mean that we, the believing Gentiles, are now citizens of Israel? If not, then what did he mean?

[Freedm]

You as too many leading questions. You're not looking for answer, you're looking to get back to your talking points.

No, I'm trying to understand your position. When you make a statement I need to make sure I understand exactly what you mean, which is why I ask follow up questions in my own words, which when answered, will hopefully either confirm what I thought you meant or clarify your answer.

If we don't understand each others positions we can't have a discussion on the topic, so it's important that we understand each other or we'll just end up frustrating each other.

[Freedm]

It depends on what you mean. Only believing Israel will enter the restored kingdom of Israel. The gentiles nations will service Israel and both will be blessed.

So when you say "The gentile nations will service Israel" does that include the church? aka. will we service Israel?

[Right Divider]

And again, you did not answer my question. Do you believe that you are a child of Abraham? Yes or no.

You as too many leading questions. You're not looking for answer, you're looking to get back to your talking points.

[Right Divider]

You didn't answer my question. This is a simple yes or no question. Do you believe that when Jeremiah says "its branches will be broken" in Jeremiah 11:16, that this refers to the breaking of the covenant? Yes or no.

I refuse to answer such a confused question.

[Right Divider]

I understand where you're coming from, based on your reading of the King James Version. However, when reading the KJV it's important to understand that it was written in the 1600's and many of those old English words have since changed their meaning, so you simply can't read it with today's meanings in mind. You have to read it with the understanding of a 17th century Englishman. (I encourage you to reference more modern translations and also to use a Lexicon such as can be found at biblehub.com)

There is nothing wrong or hard to understand in the KJV.

Specifically in Isaiah 60, I think it is the word "Gentiles" that's throwing you off.

Nope. I understand it perfectly.

We tend to think of the "Gentiles" as all those who are not physical descendents of Abraham, but really the word used here simply means "nations" or "the people". In other words, Christians are not necessarily included in this group of Gentiles.

No, I don't "tend to think" that at all. God separated Israel from the nations (gentiles).

Furthermore, if we look at the preceding verse (the last verse of Chapter 59) we can see that all of Isaiah 60 is in reference to God's covenant with the church, not with unbelieving Israel.

Isaiah 59:20-21
“The Redeemer will come to Zion,
to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,”
declares the Lord.

21 “As for me, this is my covenant with them,” says the Lord. “My Spirit, who is on you, will not depart from you, and my words that I have put in your mouth will always be on your lips, on the lips of your children and on the lips of their descendants—from this time on and forever,” says the Lord.

Yep... all about Israel.

There is no reason to think that Isaiah 60 refers to anything other than the promises made to Christ, to be fulfilled on the new earth after resurrection day.

[Right Divider]

So you admit that unbelieving Jews were expelled from Israel?

It depends on what you mean. Only believing Israel will enter the restored kingdom of Israel. The gentiles nations will service Israel and both will be blessed.

[Freedm]

And again, you did not answer my question. Do you believe that you are a child of Abraham? Yes or no.

[Freedm]

Read the whole Bible instead of proof texting with your singular verses.

Jer 11:9-10 KJV And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. (10) They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

Note what I ACTUALLY said:

You didn't answer my question. This is a simple yes or no question. Do you believe that when Jeremiah says "its branches will be broken" in Jeremiah 11:16, that this refers to the breaking of the covenant? Yes or no.

[Freedm]

I've probably explained this a million times here on TOL.

This is NOT an inclusion of gentiles as "Israel"... this is talking about excluding unbelieving Israel from Israel.

So you admit that unbelieving Jews were expelled from Israel?

[Freedm]

Paul is correct; it is you that is wrong.

Blurring, confusing, proof texting.... that's what you do.

Please explain how you reconcile the two. The promises were made to Abraham and the promises were made to Christ. Do you then not think that since we are in Christ and Christ is in us that those promises extend to us? How do you explain that?