ECT Are all our righteousnesses filthy rags or not?

[Cntrysner]

[MENTION=4345]genuineoriginal[/MENTION], you believe that after you are regenerated in water and then commit a sin you must repent of that sin, am I correct?

If I am correct, how to you receive forgiveness? Do you need to be baptized in water again? Do you repent and then excuse yourself?

What is your interpretation of this scripture concerning righteousness?...

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If righteousness is imputed then do you believe we must declare it so as in there is/was no righteous man but one who is Jesus Christ?

I don't understand your question. Would you please clarify it?

 

[Cntrysner]

I don't understand your question. Would you please clarify it?

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).

Would you agree that there is none righteous but Christ?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).

Would you agree that there is none righteous but Christ?

No one has a "personal" righteousness which is acceptable to the Father except the Son.

 

[Clete]

Would you agree that any righteous work belongs to Christ and only Christ should get the credit?

No.

What do you think the rewards we'll recieve in heaven will be for?

I Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.​

I really don't understand how people can take one verse, wrench it completely out of it's context and use it to negate the whole rest of the bible!

Just because we cannot save ourselves through works, doesn't mean that we are incapable of doing works. Just because we cannot be even close to perfect, doesn't mean that we walk around doing nothing but evil all day every day.

There was a time when good works were required in order to be saved! (James 2:24-26) And, even if you reject that James was written to Israel and not the Body of Christ(James 1:1), James 2 still blows the notion that any righteous work belongs ONLY to Christ into smitherines.

Besides, if being a Christian doesn't translate into living a life that is pleasing to God then what in the world is the point? Salvation of our souls is clearly the most important aspect of the Christian faith but we do not have to sit around and wait for death in order to live righteous lives. We are saved now - right now - today - right this very minute!

Therefore, do right and risk the consequences!

Clete

 

[Cntrysner]

No.

What do you think the rewards we'll recieve in heaven will be for?

If I get one I will not count myself worthy because it belongs to Christ.

I Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.​

Take heed, trial by fire to receive a reward for the good one has done..

Just because we cannot save ourselves through works, doesn't mean that we are incapable of doing works. Just because we cannot be even close to perfect, doesn't mean that we walk around doing nothing but evil all day every day.

If your definition of evil is sin then yes we do evil by sinning multiple times every day. If we say we don't sin then the truth is not in us.

There was a time when good works were required in order to be saved! (James 2:24-26) And, even if you reject that James was written to Israel and not the Body of Christ(James 1:1), James 2 still blows the notion that any righteous work belongs ONLY to Christ into smitherines.

We are God's instruments in Crist and should strive to do His will by His direction and can not claim any righteous work or it's outcome as our own.

Besides, if being a Christian doesn't translate into living a life that is pleasing to God then what in the world is the point? Salvation of our souls is clearly the most important aspect of the Christian faith but we do not have to sit around and wait for death in order to live righteous lives. We are saved now - right now - today - right this very minute!

One truly saved and in Christ still has not escaped the carnal.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Any good we as Christians can do is stained by the law of sin and unacceptable to God. Only His Son's righteousness is acceptable. We are members of His flesh and bones and can't escape the me, myself, and I, as Paul explained above. Paul is striving to avoid sin but can't escape his body of sin. If the stain of sin is on a righteous work it is not acceptable to God. Christ is our mediator an thank God when He looks at us He sees Christ and our sins covered.

 

[Clete]

If I get one I will not count myself worthy because it belongs to Christ.

It'll be Christ who gives you the reward, dingbat!

Take heed, trial by fire to receive a reward for the good one has done..

Take heed lest you say something that makes no sense whatsoever.

If your definition evil is sin then yes we do evil by sinning multiple times every day. If we say we don't sin then the truth is not in us.

I didn't say that we don't sin.

This is why no one cares what you have to say, Cntrysner!

Pay attention to what people say, it helps the conversation move along.

Not that you care to have it move along. You're clearly not here to have rational discussions.

We are God's instruments in Christ and should strive to His will by His direction and can not claim any righteous work or it's outcome as our own.

Should I believe you or the word of God, which I directly quoted and which you ignore in favor of your pet doctrine?

One truly saved and in Christ still has not escaped the carnal.

No one has suggested otherwise.

PAY ATTENTION!!!!

Any good we as Christians can do is stained by the law of sin and unacceptable to God.

That's your doctrine, not the word of God, which I've already shown you.

The problem for you is that unless you're God, saying it doesn't make it so and since you seem allergic to both the plain reading of scripture and to rational arguments, you have no chance of correcting your error.

Only His Son's righteousness is acceptable.

Then tell us all what is being discussed in I Cor. 3

We are members of His flesh and bones can't escape the me, myself, and I, as Paul explained above. Paul is striving to avoid sin but can't escape his body of sin. If the stain of sin is on a righteous work it is not acceptable to God. Christ is our mediator an thank God when He looks at us He sees Christ and our sins covered.

You are conflating righteous actions with being righteous. We are not made righteous because we do rightly. We are made righteous by grace through faith in the righteous act of Christ and faith in His death and resurrection. That faith is what causes God to impute Christ's righteousness to us. We are righteous, right now! That is not so because we act righteously but because the Judge of all Creation has accepted Christ's righteousness on our behalf and has therefore declared us to be righteous.

All of that you agree with! Right?

So, if we are righteous then why do you think it impossible for us to do anything that is good? Even the unrighteous do good things from time to time (Luke 11:13). Indeed, there are a lot of unrighteous people that do good things most of the time. Sure, of course, everyone sins and they probably sin every single day and perhaps even multiple times a day but that doesn't mean that every act that they perform is an act of evil!

When I go to work and earn a living to provide for my family, that is not evil!
When the Christian activist talks a woman out of murdering her unborn baby, that is not evil!
When the unbeliever helps an elderly woman carry a sack of potatoes into her house, that is not evil!
When the atheist rightly explains how private property rights are a corollary to the right to one's life, that is not evil!
When Solomon threatened to cut a disputed baby in half in order to see which woman had the appropriate response, that was not evil!
When the government executes a duly convicted murderer, that is not evil!

Not every act that people do is evil! There's lots of things that people do that are perfectly good, right and just! That doesn't qualify them for heaven because in addition to the good things they do, they also do evil, harmful and shameful things. But just because we are not saved by our works, doesn't mean that we don't ever do anything right!

How is that not just common sense? How many times are we told throughout the bible, including by Paul, to do rightly, to practice justice, to love God and to love our neighbor.

“When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers" (Proverbs 21:15).

“He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God” (Micah 6:8).

“To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice” (Proverbs 21:3).

“This is what the Lord Almighty said: ‘Administer true justice; show mercy and compassion to one another’” (Zechariah 7:9).

“Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow” (Isaiah 1:17).

“Thus says the Lord: ‘Keep justice, and do righteousness, for soon my salvation will come, and my righteousness be revealed’” (Isaiah 56:1).

"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same." (Romans 13:3}

"Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;" (Romans 14:16)

"See that no one renders evil for evil to anyone, but always pursue what is good both for yourselves and for all." (1 Thessalonians 5:15)​

That's not even 2% of what I could have quoted! The opening post, which you shamefully ignored completely, references Ezekiel 18 which is an entire chapter all about the fact that you are wrong to think that human beings are incapable of doing righteous actions.

Don't be a stubborn fool! You are wrong! The bible proves you are wrong. If you fail to repent, that will be wrong too!

Have the courage to drop false doctrines when one has been shown to be false! Where's the profit in clinging to demonstrably false doctrines! Are you more humble than Christ? Are you wiser than God who wishes to give you a reward for the righteous things you did in His name during this life? That's stupidity in the extreme! I mean, talk about false humility! Good grief man!

Clete

 

[Jerry Shugart]

There was a time when good works were required in order to be saved!

When was that? Here is what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Here is what James said concerning the new birth by which people are saved:

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:17-18).​

For some reason you just cannot understand these simple things, dingbat!

 

[Clete]

When was that? Here is what the Lord Jesus told the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (Jn.6:63).​

Here is what James said concerning the new birth by which people are saved:

"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created" (Jas.1:17-18).​

For some reason you just cannot understand these simple things, dingbat!

Go away troll!

There's forty different threads that you've started and been proven wrong on that idiotic topic. Don't come here trying to divert this one off onto your own pet dectrine that you won't repent of no matter how explicitly the bible contradicts it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Go away troll!

Continue to run and hide, nitwit!

I addressed the subject of this thread and no one proved me wrong, including you. It was you who diverted this thread by saying the following:

There was a time when good works were required in order to be saved!

The following verse proves beyond any doubt that you are wrong:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

It is time for you to once again run and hide from the clear teaching of the Scriptures which reveal that "works" never contributed to anyone's salvation in any way, shape or form.

Cease from spreading your false teaching which comes from the Neo-MAD people.

 

[Gary K]

If all our righteousness is not filthy rags, why do we need a Savior? We ought to be able to justify ourselves through our own goodness if our personal righteousness is good enough.

 

[Cntrysner]

It'll be Christ who gives you the reward, dingbat!


Take heed lest you say something that makes no sense whatsoever.

Anger spews out of you like an overflowing well. The scripture says to take heed and we all should concerning the power source of the gospel.

I didn't say that we don't sin.

This is why no one cares what you have to say, Cntrysner!

Pay attention to what people say, it helps the conversation move along.

Not that you care to have it move along. You're clearly not here to have rational discussions.

I was trying to get you to understand that if you are a sinner your righteous works are stained with sin and unacceptable to God.

1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Are the rewards you get after your good works are tried by fire like a crown or badge for you to wear for all others to see? What are these rewards for and why do you want so badly?

That's your doctrine, not the word of God, which I've already shown you.

Our good works are stained by sin or is it that you are sometimes not a sinner?

Rom 7:1 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Paul is being honest with himself about his righteous works. When he compares himself to righteousness he falls short of the mark.

You need to accept that the planter and the waterer are nothing and Christ gets all the Credit.

The problem for you is that unless you're God, saying it doesn't make it so and since you seem allergic to both the plain reading of scripture and to rational arguments, you have no chance of correcting your error.

You whine like a babe in need of milk.

Then tell us all what is being discussed in I Cor. 3

Well it doesn't mean your righteous works are acceptable to God but they will be tried by fire and all that will be left will be Christ's righteous works that were in you by the power of the Holy Spirit. Your reward will be the fullness of your salvation, the chaff be burned away and you will be changed.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Well it doesn't mean

Whenever someone answers the question "what does X mean" with "it doesn't mean Y," it means either they don't really know, or it means that their answer shows their own position to be wrong.

Let's try again.

Tell us all what IS being discussed in 1 Corinthians 3.

 

[Cntrysner]

You are conflating righteous actions with being righteous.

You don't get it do you? Your actions aren't righteous enough to receive a reward for them! They are nothing according to God.

We are not made righteous because we do rightly. We are made righteous by grace through faith in the righteous act of Christ and faith in His death and resurrection. That faith is what causes God to impute Christ's righteousness to us. We are righteous, right now! That is not so because we act righteously but because the Judge of all Creation has accepted Christ's righteousness on our behalf and has therefore declared us to be righteous.

All of that you agree with! Right?

So, if we are righteous then why do you think it impossible for us to do anything that is good? Even the unrighteous do good things from time to time (Luke 11:13). Indeed, there are a lot of unrighteous people that do good things most of the time. Sure, of course, everyone sins and they probably sin every single day and perhaps even multiple times a day but that doesn't mean that every act that they perform is an act of evil!

[Mod Edit: Blasphemy Removed], just how hard headed are you? The righteousness we can claim belongs to Christ not you. Imputed means you did not deserve it and still don't. There you go again with "evil". I think that if you're evil you are definitely going to hell, I could be wrong. We should be talking about after you're saved and the fact you are still a sinner that can do no good work and the only righteous work that can come from us is Christ working in us.

I'm not saying you're not a good man that does great things in life but righteousness has to be compared to Christ for it to be recognized or acceptable to God.

Don't be a stubborn fool! You are wrong! The bible proves you are wrong. If you fail to repent, that will be wrong too!

What do I need to repent from? Christ is in me and I am in Christ and all my sins were cover at the cross. When God looks at me he sees Christ His Son working in me not my sins. The Holy Spirit chastises me on a continual basis and reminds we every day many times in the day that I am still a sinner but Christ has me covered. Repent means to change, what do I need to change my mind about?, I stand convicted of sin already.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Cntrysner]

I apologize for the above infraction, It was not intended as blasphemy.

 

[Cntrysner]

Whenever someone answers the question "what does X mean" with "it doesn't mean Y," it means either they don't really know, or it means that their answer shows their own position to be wrong.

Let's try again.

Tell us all what IS being discussed in 1 Corinthians 3.

Paul is speaking to Christians and instructing them because they are still carnal and strive among themselves with envy. It is not the preacher or the worker that receives credit or honor for they are nothing. Christ is the author and giver of any increase concerning the gospel. All our righteous works will be burned away revealing the foundation and our reward will still be salvation.

I think Romans 7 needs to be consider to capture what Paul is speaking of....

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

 

[Clete]

Anger spews out of you like an overflowing well. The scripture says to take heed and we all should concerning the power source of the gospel.

There's no anger at all. I'm simply responding to your own words.

If I was angry, you'd know it.

I was trying to get you to understand that if you are a sinner your righteous works are stained with sin and unacceptable to God.

That was never in dispute.

As I've now said multiple times.

1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Are the rewards you get after your good works are tried by fire like a crown or badge for you to wear for all others to see? What are these rewards for and why do you want so badly?

I have no idea what they are or what form they will take. The point is that they exist and they are given in response to OUR RIGHTEOUS ACTIONS!

Otherwise, everyone would get them and there'd be no such thing as "suffering loss" and "being saved but as through fire".

Our good works are stained by sin or is it that you are sometimes not a sinner?

This is your doctrine which is in dispute. Repeating your position as though it hasn't be refuted doesn't count as a rebuttal.

Paul is being honest with himself about his righteous works. When he compares himself to righteousness he falls short of the mark.

This is not in dispute! How many times will I have to say it before it sinks in?

You need to accept that the planter and the waterer are nothing and Christ gets all the Credit.

Christ is the One who will be giving out the rewards on judgment day!

You whine like a babe in need of milk.

And you don't have enough common sense to acknowledge when he has been shown to be wrong, nor are you willing to make an argument in rebuttal to a word that has been said against your obviously false doctrine.

Well it doesn't mean your righteous works are acceptable to God but they will be tried by fire and all that will be left will be Christ's righteous works that were in you by the power of the Holy Spirit.

No, this is your doctrine! You don't get to just declare what a passage of scripture means! Do you even know how to make an argument? Can you think past your own nose?

How, for example, would this contrivance possibly explain the phrase "we are God's fellow workers" or account for those who will "suffer loss" but yet still be saved?

What are they losing, their pants?

Your reward will be the fullness of your salvation, the chaff be burned away and you will be changed.

Again, this is just you restating your doctrine. You're effectively ignoring the passage because you are too proud to admit that your position is an overstatement of the truth.


Why do you always want to respond to every post with two separate posts?

You don't get it do you? Your actions aren't righteous enough to receive a reward for them! They are nothing according to God.

This is your doctrine, which is in dispute. Repeating yourself doesn't count as a rebuttal argument.

...just how hard headed are you? The righteousness we can claim belongs to Christ not you.

Intrinsically, I agree! But that does not mean that I am incapable of doing any good thing. It just does not mean that! Even people who hate God completely do good things all the time! I've shown you the passages to prove it and there are others that I could cite. Ever heard of the good Samaritan?

Imputed means you did not deserve it and still don't.

I agree entirely!

So, as I asked in the last post, why then do you believe it impossible for me, a righteous person by God's declaration, to do any good works?

There you go again with "evil". I think that if you're evil you are definitely going to hell, I could be wrong. We should be talking about after you're saved and the fact you are still a sinner that can do no good work and the only righteous work that can come from us is Christ working in us.

Either way! Even unbelievers do good things! That's not my opinion! Jesus Himself said so! Do you believe the bible or don't you?

I'm not saying you're not a good man that does great things in life but righteousness has to be compared to Christ for it to be recognized or acceptable to God.

Again, you are conflating two separate issues as I explained in my last post. Why do you just completely ignore the primary point of the whole argument against you?

What do I need to repent from?

False doctrine!

As I explained in my last post! Do you actually read and think about what people say or do you just react with your mind turned off?

Christ is in me and I am in Christ and all my sins were cover at the cross. When God looks at me he sees Christ His Son working in me not my sins. The Holy Spirit chastises me on a continual basis and reminds we every day many times in the day that I am still a sinner but Christ has me covered.

All true, except that you are not a sinner. Yes, you still do things that are wrong but where there is no law, sin in not imputed. You are righteous because righteousness has been imputed to you by grace through faith. If you want to win victory over sin (as much as is possible while still in this flesh), stop thinking of yourself as a sinner and start accepting the truth of your righteous position before God in Christ.

Repent means to change, what do I need to change my mind about?

We should all stand ready to reject any false doctrine, no matter how minor the point. To refuse to do so is prideful selfishness.

I stand convicted of sin already.

No, Christ was convicted in your place. To convict you would be unjust. You are forgiven and pardoned, not convicted.

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

So, just try to take a guess who the book of Hebrews was written to and then ask yourself whether you're a member of that group.

Hint: It was written to the Hebrews and no, you're not one of those.

This passage does not apply to the body of Christ any more than does Deuteronomy. When you read it, you must remember that you are reading someone else's mail. Context is everything!

Clete

 

[Clete]

If all our righteousness is not filthy rags, why do we need a Savior? We ought to be able to justify ourselves through our own goodness if our personal righteousness is good enough.

This makes the same error that Cntrysner is making.

You're conflating two seperate issues. No one is suggesting that we can be good ENOUGH to be saved by our own works as though we are sinlessly perfect and deserve to spend eternity with God. All that is being said is that people are capable of doing things are good and that aren't evil!

Was Abel not righteous? The bible says he was in several places. (Matthew 23:35; Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12)

Is there not a whole list of people that God considered righteous in Hebrews 11?

Neither Enoch nor Elijah have yet tasted death! Is that because they weren't righteous or because they were?

I mean, how much more obvious can it be?

 

[Cntrysner]

There's no anger at all. I'm simply responding to your own words.

If I was angry, you'd know it.


That was never in dispute.

As I've now said multiple times.


I have no idea what they are or what form they will take. The point is that they exist and they are given in response to OUR RIGHTEOUS ACTIONS!

Otherwise, everyone would get them and there'd be no such thing as "suffering loss" and "being saved but as through fire".


This is your doctrine which is in dispute. Repeating your position as though it hasn't be refuted doesn't count as a rebuttal.


This is not in dispute! How many times will I have to say it before it sinks in?


Christ is the One who will be giving out the rewards on judgment day!


And you don't have enough common sense to acknowledge when he has been shown to be wrong, nor are you willing to make an argument in rebuttal to a word that has been said against your obviously false doctrine.


No, this is your doctrine! You don't get to just declare what a passage of scripture means! Do you even know how to make an argument? Can you think past your own nose?

How, for example, would this contrivance possibly explain the phrase "we are God's fellow workers" or account for those who will "suffer loss" but yet still be saved?

What are they losing, their pants?


Again, this is just you restating your doctrine. You're effectively ignoring the passage because you are too proud to admit that your position is an overstatement of the truth.


Why do you always want to respond to every post with two separate posts?


This is your doctrine, which is in dispute. Repeating yourself doesn't count as a rebuttal argument.


Intrinsically, I agree! But that does not mean that I am incapable of doing any good thing. It just does not mean that! Even people who hate God completely do good things all the time! I've shown you the passages to prove it and there are others that I could cite. Ever heard of the good Samaritan?


I agree entirely!

So, as I asked in the last post, why then do you believe it impossible for me, a righteous person by God's declaration, to do any good works?


Either way! Even unbelievers do good things! That's not my opinion! Jesus Himself said so! Do you believe the bible or don't you?


Again, you are conflating two separate issues as I explained in my last post. Why do you just completely ignore the primary point of the whole argument against you?


False doctrine!

As I explained in my last post! Do you actually read and think about what people say or do you just react with your mind turned off?


All true, except that you are not a sinner. Yes, you still do things that are wrong but where there is no law, sin in not imputed. You are righteous because righteousness has been imputed to you by grace through faith. If you want to win victory over sin (as much as is possible while still in this flesh), stop thinking of yourself as a sinner and start accepting the truth of your righteous position before God in Christ.


We should all stand ready to reject any false doctrine, no matter how minor the point. To refuse to do so is prideful selfishness.


No, Christ was convicted in your place. To convict you would be unjust. You are forgiven and pardoned, not convicted.


So, just try to take a guess who the book of Hebrews was written to and then ask yourself whether you're a member of that group.

Hint: It was written to the Hebrews and no, you're not one of those.

This passage does not apply to the body of Christ any more than does Deuteronomy. When you read it, you must remember that you are reading someone else's mail. Context is everything!

Clete

I hope above all this that we can still be friends and even more so, brothers in Christ because I still count you as one.

 

[Cntrysner]

Is our righteousness fifthly rags.

Both yes and no can be true, it depends on your point of view. My contention is to make sure the view gives all credit to Christ as Paul did.

Can someone here give me a scripture where Paul states his righteousness or he claims that his work is good or any can do good. I totally admit I am not a theologian and I am ashamed of my ignorance of scripture.

I simply want to insure concerning righteousness that there is no good a man can do if it is not Christ working in them through the power of the Holy Spirit. I want to leave no other options but Christ least even one be deceived by word or deed. I need to hear it said as such in any venue, Christ is the only righteousness or good one can proclaim concerning truth of the gospel.

I personally believe that any good I can do is not acceptable and count myself as a sinner no matter how anyone perceives me. I will point to Christ for any good found in me.