ECT Works of Law and Works of Grace, Is That Biblical?

iamaberean

New member
Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

Works of Law vs Works of Faith

Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
written.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?

Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
also.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth his will, him he heareth.

1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
works (obedience) meet for repentance.

The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
works of law.
Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
by the law of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
law to do them.

The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.
 

turbosixx

New member
Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

Works of Law vs Works of Faith

Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
written.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?

Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
also.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth his will, him he heareth.

1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
works (obedience) meet for repentance.

The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
works of law.
Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
by the law of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
law to do them.

The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

I agree we must obey in order to be worthy of the gift of grace.
I wish the KJV had not of used "believeth not" instead of "does not obey" in this verse.
Jn. 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Believeth not is perfectly fine if one understands that to believe is to obey and thus to not obey is to not believe.

Talking about those who came out of Egypt, we see the definition of unbelief is disobedience.
Heb. 3:18 And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief.


FYI, it would be easier to read your post if you would us a different color for scripture/your words so we can tell where one ends and the other begins.
 

Bradley D

Well-known member
Works are expected of the believer, but one gains no points by doing them. Grace is a gift (Eph. 2:8).
 

Right Divider

Body part
Works are expected of the believer, but one gains no points by doing them. Grace is a gift (Eph. 2:8).
Good works are a natural consequence of being saved by grace through faith.

Eph 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Last edited:

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Several years ago, I posted the following. It has been lost but I still believe it is relevant. So here is is again.

Works of Law vs Works of Faith

Proper use of words will help us understand the Word of God. How do we do that?

Hermeneutics says that if there is a misunderstanding of a word, then search the scriptures for answers.
Salvation is received and maintained by being obedient to God's word. So as we read the
scriptures below, replace the word works with obedience. I will help by showing that beside each one,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of
God:
There is no doubt that salvation is by grace through faith. We can accept this just as it is
written.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works (obedience), is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works (obedience): shew me thy faith
without thy works (obedience), and I will shew thee my faith by my works (obedience).
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and
tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works (obedience) is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience), when he had offered
Isaac his son upon the altar?

Indeed we are saved by grace, but it is by being obedient that it is made perfect. Obedience
is the works of those serving Jesus. So again, let us subsitute the word obedience for works.

Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works (obedience), and by works (obedience)
was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was
imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works (obedience) a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works (obedience), when she had
received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works (obedience) is dead
also.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the will of our Father requires obedience.

Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an
house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell;
and the ruin of that house was great.

Joh 9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God,
and doeth his will, him he heareth.

1Jn 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God
abideth for ever.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to
whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2Co 7:15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the
obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the
coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do
works (obedience) meet for repentance.

The above show the works (obedience) of faith.

Other times when law is used in the new testament it will not be used alone but it will state the
works of law.
Now let us look at the works of law. Again we will replace works with obedience.

Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier
of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works (obedience)? Nay: but
by the law of faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law
of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works (obedience)
of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works (obedience) of the law, but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the
faith of Christ, and not by the works (obedience) of the law: for by the works (obedience) of the
law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before
whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works (obedience) of the
law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth
he it by the works (obedience) of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works (obedience) of the law are under the curse: for it is
written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the
law to do them.

The works (obedience) of the law has been done away with, we live under the works (obedience) of faith.

When Jesus states that we must do something, it is not the for our works (obedience) of the law
but for our works (obedience) of faith that we do it.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Not every one is going to enter into God's kingdom unless they do his will.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Go ahead and substitute 'deeds' for works, if you like, "and done many wonderful deeds".
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Just Works or Deeds will not be enough for God to know us.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Who ever 'heareth' these things Jesus says, and 'doeth' them are the wise men.
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Build our house on the 'rock', as Jesus says to build it.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
He that 'heardth' these things that Jesus says, and 'does not do them' is a foolish man. If God has said, by way of scripture, to do this or that, then by faith we should do it.
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
One should not let their salvation fall because they would not 'doeth' the things one is told to do by scriptures.

Can one read the above and think that it is our good deeds that get us into heaven, or is it by doing the will of God?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

ergon
er'-gon
From ἔργω ergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

I love how I can simply read the bible and understand it without having to replace words so as to allow passages to suit my doctrine.

The lengths people will go to in order to turn grace into law is simply astounding.

Why can't people simply believe that we are saved by grace apart from works?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Will the believer suffer loss if they have no works?
1Co 3:10-15 KJV According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. (11) For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (12) Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (13) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (14) If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. (15) If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 

turbosixx

New member
That's what the Bible says.... I just believe it.

That's NOT what the bible says, you believe a lie

Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
 
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