ECT NT verses to churches threaten loss of salvation

Gary K

New member
Banned
Hebrews is written to a people that are only partakers if they hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

As their salvation is relying on their faith to get them saved

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

1 Peter 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

While people living today in the dispensation of the grace of God are partakers by the gospel

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



As our salvation relies solely on the Lord's faith 2000 years ago in our place!

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

...
1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Galatians 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

To say that anyone need to do something to be saved or stay saved is a denial of the gospel of our salvation. It is in opposition to the truth of the gospel.

That's a lot of reading ability. You're reading your meaning into everything you quoted. When you do so you're also directly contradicting a mass of scripture and a lot of Paul's writings as well. Why all the effort to make Paul argue with himself? He doesn't. The only way to make Paul argue with himself is to read a position into his statements rather than using the entirety of his writings to understand his position.
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
I believe 100% of the Bible.

Are you completely unaware the the majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot even be considered NT?

Heb 9:16-17 KJV For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. (17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


Do you go to Jerusalem three times a year as the Bible commands?


Such a common FALSE accusation.


The usual vacuous claim.


Indeed he did and sometimes Paul's context was different too.



More false accusations.


No doubt... and that is why Paul had to write some NEW scripture.


:juggle:

If you would like to stop ranting, we can have a conversation.

LOL. Come on, Right Divider, who was it that started all the ranting with the straw man accusation? As I remember it was you. What I said was not a straw man argument for I reject your reading of scripture. You read your position into the Bible as the Bible nowhere makes the statements you claim are the Christian positions. The OT looks forward to Christ and the NT looks back at the reality of Him. That's the only difference. In both testaments salvation is only by faith and requires the new birth. The God who says He changes not didn't change to become a respecter of persons. He is as He has always been, impartial, just, and fair. He treats us all alike, no matter when we have lived during the timeline of human history.
 

Right Divider

Body part
LOL. Come on, Right Divider, who was it that started all the ranting with the straw man accusation? As I remember it was you. What I said was not a straw man argument for I reject your reading of scripture. You read your position into the Bible as the Bible nowhere makes the statements you claim are the Christian positions. The OT looks forward to Christ and the NT looks back at the reality of Him. That's the only difference. In both testaments salvation is only by faith and requires the new birth. The God who says He changes not didn't change to become a respecter of persons. He is as He has always been, impartial, just, and fair. He treats us all alike, no matter when we have lived during the timeline of human history.
So you do not understand that the majority of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John cannot in any way be considered "new testament"? Ok, stay confused. You seem to like it.
 
The verse does not say that. I answered one of the verses which you think denies OSAS so now it is your turn to answer the following words of the Lord Jesus which supports OSAS:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19)

"Belief" does not mean what you think it means. To a Christian, faith without works is dead.(James 2:17)

The belief spoken of in John 3:16 is part of a LIVING faith. Yes, those with that kind of belief shall not perish provided they endure to the end(Matt. 24:13). One must be in a state of belief at the point of death. They must have a living faith. That's what John 3:16 is saying.
 
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Rather, I'll believe the overriding theme of eternal security in the form of sound words that I have heard of Paul (2 Timothy 1:13 KJV)in Romans through Philemon knowing Whom I have believed, and that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. You can't lose something, you didn't (and could not Romans 4:4-5 KJV) work for to begin with that which is by grace through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.


Romans 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.


The gospel of YOUR salvation (and mine) is how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and was raised again the third day for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) and the formula to be saved is Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV which is Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV.

It's not about what you do. It's about what God did 2000 years ago in the world's behalf!

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Romans 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.



2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

"Why don't you" get saved by trusting the Lord believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV. Your flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God no matter how much white paint you slap on it with your confidence in the flesh. Count it but dung and get saved.

Being saved by grace does not prove OSAS. Without God's grace, men could not be saved. There is no work that can merit that initial grace from God. Men can reject God's grace, however. There are warnings throughout all of Scripture regarding this. Men can also fall away from the faith...

[4]For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. (Heb 6:4-6)

Note that this is not an Angel or any other creature from without, that causes man to fall away. He falls away by his own free choice. God never takes away a person's free will at any time. Also, women should not be attempting to teach others. This is stated clearly in Scripture, yet so many women disobey it...

[11] Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. [12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence. [13] For Adam was first formed; then Eve. [14] And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression. (1 Tim 2:11-14)
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Being saved by grace does not prove OSAS.
Without God's grace, men could not be saved.
There is no work that can merit that initial grace from God.
Men can reject God's grace, however.
There are warnings throughout all of Scripture regarding this.
Men can also fall away from the faith...

Well, at least YOU have believed God's revelation of Truth as presented clearly in the NT.

N.A. churches are fast asleep ... and mostly believe in ANTINOMIANISM
(grace-only, hyper-grace, etc.) ... which is from the very pits of hell.
This doctrine teaches that believers, after they have been born-again,
have NO part to play in their salvation (no co-operation, no obedience, etc.).

Yes, the NT is absolutely filled with warnings about "believers" who are NOT saved.

My #1 favorite of all of them is Revelation 21:7-8.
Please note the 3 distinct groups: cowards, unbelievers, habitual sinners.

The cowards and the habitual unrepentant sinners are
believers who are NOT in the unbelieving group.

The cowardly group includes:
-- believers who are afraid to proclaim their belief
-- believers who fall away during Christian persecution
-- believers who submit to taking the mark of the beast
 

heir

TOL Subscriber


Being saved by grace does not prove OSAS. Without God's grace, men could not be saved. There is no work that can merit that initial grace from God. Men can reject God's grace, however. There are warnings throughout all of Scripture regarding this. Men can also fall away from the faith...

[4]For it is impossible for those who were once illuminated, have tasted also the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5] Have moreover tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[6] And are fallen away: to be renewed again to penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God, and making him a mockery. (Heb 6:4-6)
Hebrews is written to Hebrews, you fool. It means what it says, as it says it, to them both past and future. It has NOTHING to do with members of the Body of Christ or the dispensation of the grace of God to us. Our inheritance is guaranteed with that seal of the Holy Spirit of promise according to Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV and there's nothing I can do or not do to screw that up! PTL!
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Hebrews is written to Hebrews, you fool. It means what it says, as it says it, to them both past and future. It has NOTHING to do with members of the Body of Christ or the dispensation of the grace of God to us.

You are the fool. It is only those in the Body of Christ who have a heavenly calling and have the following standing before God:

"Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Eph.2:5-6).​

That is exactly the same thing spoken of in the book of Hebrews:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

Those who received the book of Hebrews enjoyed eternal security just like all the other members of the Body of Christ:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified"
(Heb.10:14).​
 

Right Divider

Body part
You are the fool. It is only those in the Body of Christ who have a heavenly calling and have the following standing before God:

"Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Eph.2:5-6).​

That is exactly the same thing spoken of in the book of Hebrews:
"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

Those who received the book of Hebrews enjoyed eternal security just like all the other members of the Body of Christ:

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified"
(Heb.10:14).​
How can anyone think that a book named HEBREWS is written to "neither Jew nor Greek"?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
How can anyone think that a book named HEBREWS is written to "neither Jew nor Greek"?

Why would Paul, who was a member of the Body of Christ, refer to himself in the following way since in the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek?:

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" (Ro.11:1).​

According to your logic Paul couldn't be a member of the Body of Christ!

All you prove is that you know about the Body of Christ because you are ignorant of the fact that those in the Body are said to have a heavenly calling, being seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

"Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Eph.2:5-6).​

That is exactly the same thing spoken of in the book of Hebrews:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"
(Heb.12:22-24).​
 

Right Divider

Body part
Why would Paul, who was a member of the Body of Christ, refer to himself in the following way since in the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek?:
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" (Ro.11:1).​
CONTEXT Jerry.... CONTEXT....

It's simply amazing that you do not understand CONTEXT.

The POINT of the beginning of Romans 11 is that God that has NOT cast away His people.

Many people today claim that God HAS cast away His people. Are you one of those?

According to your logic Paul couldn't be a member of the Body of Christ!

All you prove is that you know about the Body of Christ because you are ignorant of the fact that those in the Body are said to have a heavenly calling, being seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

"Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus"
(Eph.2:5-6).​

That is exactly the same thing spoken of in the book of Hebrews:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"
(Heb.12:22-24).​
Conflating the roles of Israel and the body of Christ will get you nowhere.

The heavenly Jerusalem comes down to the earth.

Are you someone that thinks that God will NOT restore Israel?
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
CONTEXT Jerry.... CONTEXT....

It's simply amazing that you do not understand CONTEXT.

The POINT of the beginning of Romans 11 is that God that has NOT cast away His people.

Many people today claim that God HAS cast away His people. Are you one of those?

At the time that the epistle to the Romans was written Israel had been temporarily set aside, not cast away:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?" (Ro.11:15).​

Are you actually arguing that the Body of Christ had not even had its beginning at the time Paul wrote the epistle to the Romans?



Conflating the roles of Israel and the body of Christ will get you nowhere.

The heavenly Jerusalem comes down to the earth.

Are you someone that thinks that God will NOT restore Israel?

God will restore Israel but the following words in bold written by the author of Hebrews is in the "second perfect" tense, meaning that was it has already happened for those believers:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"
(Heb.12:22-24).​
 

Right Divider

Body part
At the time that the epistle to the Romans was written Israel had been temporarily set aside, not cast away:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?" (Ro.11:15).​

Are you actually arguing that the Body of Christ had not even had its beginning at the time Paul wrote the epistle to the Romans?
No Jerry.... you know very well that I believe that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ per 1 Tim 1:16

Paul was NOT speaking about himself as a member of the body of Christ in Romans 11, but as a member of the nation of Israel.

Why is this hard for you to understand? (I already know).

God will restore Israel but the following words in bold written by the author of Hebrews is in the "second perfect" tense, meaning that was it has already happened for those believers:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel"
(Heb.12:22-24).​
The HEBREWS are just what it says. That book is NOT to or about the body of Christ.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
No Jerry.... you know very well that I believe that Paul was the first member of the body of Christ per 1 Tim 1:16

That is not what is said at 1 Timothy 1:16.

Paul was NOT speaking about himself as a member of the body of Christ in Romans 11, but as a member of the nation of Israel.

Nice job of just ignoring the fact that when the book of Romans was written Israel had been temporarily set aside.

The HEBREWS are just what it says. That book is NOT to or about the body of Christ.

Nice job of just ignoring the heavenly calling of those who received the book of Hebrews. The author of the book of Hebrews made ot plain that the Jewish believers had access to God in the "holy place" in heaven:

"Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh"
(Heb.10:19-20).​

Cornelius Stam, who founded the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following about this access to the holy place in heaven:

"The Holiest place of the tabernacle, still closed to Jewish believers at that time, except representatively through the High Priest once each year, reminds us of our free entrance into 'the holiest of all' in heaven itself. By grace we enter the presence of God, '. . . by the blood of Jesus . . . a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh' (Heb. 10:19,20). Think of it! The old dead way replaced by 'a new and living way,' specially consecrated to our use through the blood of Christ! This is the great Pauline doctrine of our access to God (Rom. 5:2)" (Stam, The Berean Searchlight, Volume L, Number 2).​

Paul Sadler, the second President of the Berean Bible Society, understood that those instructions apply to members of the Body of Christ. He wrote:

"The work has been accomplished on our behalf; now it is given unto us to 'believe,' at which time we are 'accepted by God' in the Beloved One, having full access into the heavenlies| (Eph. 1:6; Phil. 1:29; Heb.10:19,20)" (Sadler, Exploring the Unsearchable Riches of Christ [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co.1993; Third Printing], 177).​

"But now, through the blood of Christ, God dwells in our midst, thus, we can 'come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need' (Heb. 4:16). It is a solemn thought indeed that every believer in Christ dwells in the very presence of God" (Sadler, Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians [Stephens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1999], 66).​

Sadler also acknowledges that under the priesthood of the law the Jews did not have access to God:

"In time past, the priesthood implied that the people did not have access to God...The priests always ministered on 'behalf' of those who did not have access. But consider these words of the Apostle Paul: 'But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ...For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father' (Eph. 2:13,18). On the basis of the Cross both Jews and Gentiles now have access to the Father"
(Sadler, "The Life and Letters of the Apostle Peter--Part VII," The Berean Searchlight, September, 2000, 8).​

The Jewish Christians who received the book of Hebrews had access to God while they were on the earth because just like all of the members of the Body of Christ they were partakers of the heavenly calling:

"Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus" (Heb.3:1).​
 

Right Divider

Body part
Nice job of just ignoring the fact that when the book of Romans was written Israel had been temporarily set aside.
So Paul cannot even mention facts about his nation because they were set aside at the time? :kookoo:

You use so much fallacious reasoning. It's no wonder you're so confused.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
So Paul cannot even mention facts about his nation because they were set aside at the time?

You are the one who said that the book of Hebrews cannot be for the Body of Christ because in the Body there is neither Jew nor Greek. And I said that since Paul called himself an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin then according to your logic he cannot be a member of the Body of Christ.

You can't even keep up with a simple argument!

Besides that, you said nothing about the fact that those who received the book of Hebrews had a heavenly calling and all of the verses which I quoted proves, just like the rest of those in the Body, that they are risen with Christ and sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

That cannot be said about the nation of Israel, because Israel's calling is earthly and in the future she will dwell in the land which the LORD gave Jacob.
 

Right Divider

Body part
You are the one who said that the book of Hebrews cannot be for the Body of Christ because in the Body there is neither Jew nor Greek.
Actually, I did not say it was that was BECAUSE there is neither Jew nor Greek in the body of Christ. But merely by its NAME you can tell that the context is the HEBREWS and not the body of Christ.

Your Bible blender theory of the body of Christ is ridiculous and leads you to some ridiculous conclusions.

And I said that since Paul called himself an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin then according to your logic he cannot be a member of the Body of Christ.
The CONTEXT of Romans 11 is Israel and the fact God has NOT cast them away. Again, why so hard for you?

You can't even keep up with a simple argument!
:DK:

Besides that, you said nothing about the fact that those who received the book of Hebrews had a heavenly calling and all of the verses which I quoted proves, just like the rest of those in the Body, that they are risen with Christ and sit in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

That cannot be said about the nation of Israel, because Israel's calling is earthly and in the future she will dwell in the land which the LORD gave Jacob.
Israel's calling is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. THAT is their "heavenly calling".

Your Bible blending/mashing causes you great confusion.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Your Bible blender theory of the body of Christ is ridiculous and leads you to some ridiculous conclusions.

My views on the Hebrew epistles match those of the giants of Mid Acts Dispensationalism, Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam. Your views match those taught by the Acts 28 crowd.

The CONTEXT of Romans 11 is Israel and the fact God has NOT cast them away. Again, why so hard for you?

Why do you continue to ignore what Paul said in Romans 11 about Israel here?:

"For if their having been cast aside has carried with it the reconciliation of the world, what will their being accepted again be but Life out of death?"
(Ro.11:15).​

Israel's calling is the kingdom of heaven on the earth. THAT is their "heavenly calling".

Your Bible blending/mashing causes you great confusion.

You are the one confused and that is why you just refuse to address the fact that those who received the book of Hebrews were told the following:

"But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new testament, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel" (Heb.12:22-24).​

They are told that they have already come the new Jerusalem, the city of the living God who is in the eternal state and not on the earth. And only those in the Body of Christ are risen with Christ and now sit in heavenly places:

"Even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Eph.2:5-6).​

You can't even tell the difference between theearth and the third heaven where the LORD God dwells!
 
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