ECT The Whore of Babylon & The Mark of the Beast Revealed

[Idolater]

This is called moving the goalposts.

OK I'm game. Let's see.

RD was talking about your claim that A) God dedicated a new covenenant

He did.

B) to acknowledge Him as our Creator

Hold on. I was using the same words as TheThirdAngel144 did, to address their post directly, "You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant (the Sabbath) between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator." I just granted that Sabbath keeping was 'the sign of the covenant...acknowledging [God] as [our] Creator,' without contest, because it isn't material to my response. The fact is that God (our Creator) has dedicated a new covenant between Him and His people.

, C) that the sign of the new covenant is not in Sabbath keeping, D) but in Mass/Eucharist/the Lord's Table, E) Celebrating every Sunday.

In contrast to TheThirdAngel144's claim that Sabbath-keeping is the modern 'sign' of God's people. Those acknowledging the new covenant are known for Mass, not for Sabbath-keeping.

That's called religion.

RD distinguished 'religion' from what's in the Bible, and Communion is in the Bible.

Or, as Christ calls it... Vain repetition.

And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. - Matthew 6:7 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew6:7&version=NKJV

Mass is a prayer, that's true. But 'vain?' That would require that Communion wasn't to be regularly celebrated. Again in the context of the post I was addressing, where the Sabbath is once a week, so Mass is once a week also.

 

[Idolater]

The the one that your religion loves so much.

The word is used a total of ONE TIME and only by the apostle Paul.

Oh. Well, if it was only Paul then....

 

[JudgeRightly]

Are the "Ten Commandments" really irrevocable commandments? The scripture shows us that those Ten Commandments are either revocable or subservient to a higher law.

Example one: "Thou shalt not kill" vs. "Thou shalt kill"

Exodus 20:13 KJV
(13) Thou shalt not kill.

1 Samuel 15:33 KJV
(33) And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.

The correct word is "murder," not "kill."

This is a COMMON mistake.

God is not the hypocrite that you make Him out to be.

Example Two: "Thou shalt not make any graven image" vs. "Thou shalt make a graven image"

Exodus 20:4 KJV
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Numbers 21:8-9 KJV
(8) And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
(9) And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

You can make any argument you want from the Bible when you take things out of context.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - Exodus 20:4-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:4-6&version=NKJV

God is not the hypocrite you make Him out to be.

There you have at least two cases demonstrating that

... you have no idea what you're talking about.

there was law that superseded those specific commandments. They were not "eternal" or "immutable" ... even though the law they reflect and were based on is eternal and immutable.

If the "Ten Commandments" were eternal, then why do they lack establishment before Moses?" And why would they be declared only to Israel? Scripture also has an answer here. The "Ten Commandments" are not an eternal law, they are a based upon (and a reflection) of the fulfillment of that law, namely "Love God" and "Love thy Neighbor."

Thus, when God commanded that someone must be killed, "Love God" meant that we must first obey God and took precedence even over the commandment which had been specifically given to them. When God declared "make thee an image of a serpent" again "Love God" overrules the commandment forbidding the making of graven images.

The seventh day Sabbath (and all of the sabbaths) are part of a covenant made with Israel which was brought out of Egypt, and their children. I was never a party to that covenant, nor would I be eligible to participate in the promises of that covenant (such as inheriting the land of Canaan.)

Does the seventh day sabbath reflect a higher law? It reflects "love God" as in that we would do whatever God asks of us. The objective of the law is to remember the LORD, not the service of the day itself. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. Oxen may still be rescued from ditches, and the priests may profane the sabbath in service of the temple or the LORD of the Sabbath.

:blabla:

Example Three:

Matthew 12:5-8 KJV
(5) Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
(6) But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
(7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
(8) For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

There you have a third instance where the commandment of the LORD replaces one of those ten commandments. Commandments 3, 4, and 6 are not eternal and immutable; they are still subject to God to suspend or redefine as He pleases.

Nothing is being replaced here.

Jesus is CORRECTING people on their interpretation of it.

“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days you shall labor and do all your work,but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. - Exodus 20:8-11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:8-11&version=NKJV

Do you discount Romans 14 and Colossians 2 specifically? Or do you disregard the New Testament as being applicable or inspired? You haven't explained your reasoning.

Would you consider the questions I brought forth here? And one more question:

If God were to give you a new commandment (or commandments) would you be willing to obey that commandment (or commandments?) Why or why not? Thanks.

:blabla:

Moral law does not change. It is ABSOLUTE.

Symbolic law can and does (in the Bible), but is no longer applicable.

 

[JudgeRightly]

OK I'm game. Let's see.
He did.
Hold on. I was using the same words as TheThirdAngel144 did, to address their post directly, "You are morally obligated to keep the sign of the covenant (the Sabbath) between you and God, acknowledging Him as your Creator." I just granted that Sabbath keeping was 'the sign of the covenant...acknowledging [God] as [our] Creator,' without contest, because it isn't material to my response. The fact is that God (our Creator) has dedicated a new covenant between Him and His people.
In contrast to TheThirdAngel144's claim that Sabbath-keeping is the modern 'sign' of God's people. Those acknowledging the new covenant are known for Mass, not for Sabbath-keeping.
RD distinguished 'religion' from what's in the Bible, and Communion is in the Bible.
Mass is a prayer, that's true. But 'vain?' That would require that Communion wasn't to be regularly celebrated. Again in the context of the post I was addressing, where the Sabbath is once a week, so Mass is once a week also.

Celebrating something on a regular basis which was meant to be something done every once in a while on special occasions causes it to lose it's value. It loses it's "special-ness". People who pray on a schedule typically (though, not always) forget the meaning of it rather quickly, and it quickly turns into something that's done, "you must do this, or else... something."

 

[Rosenritter]

The correct word is "murder," not "kill."

This is a COMMON mistake.

God is not the hypocrite that you make Him out to be.

If your intent is to throw on rage-blinders and ignore the content (and neglect the questions) you might as well stop there.

 

[Rosenritter]

The correct word is "murder," not "kill."

This is a COMMON mistake.

God is not the hypocrite that you make Him out to be.

If your intent is to throw on rage-blinders and ignore the content (and neglect the questions) you might as well stop there. I don't suppose you actually have anything constructive to address the content?

 

[Shubee]

Babylon refers to any and all churches which have mixed paganism within their church, yet call themselves Christians.

What about the pro-abortion Seventh-day Adventist church? Are they a part of fallen Babylon or just a twin sister?

 

[TheThirdAngel144]

God dedicated a new covenant to acknowledge Him as our Creator. The sign of the new covenant is not in sabbath keeping, but in Mass, celebrating the Eucharist, the Lord's table. Celebrated every Sunday, not in remembrance of the creation, but of His Son's resurrection from the dead.

This is incorrect. This planet is not the only one that God created (as we can see throughout the universe). It is consistent with His habits as the Creator of the Universe to establish the 7th Day Sabbath for all humanity, and all of the universe to keep. Christ, who is our example, and His Apostles, all kept the 7th day Sabbath. The ordinance of the Lord's Supper is indeed for Christians, and is done showing the death and resurrection of Christ, not showing the creation of the world.

Luke 22:19-20 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

 

[TheThirdAngel144]

How did you jump to a conclusion that the Sabbath was (interpreted by anyone) as a shadow of the crucifixion? The Passover was the shadow of the crucifixion, not any of the sabbaths.

This is a common stance of many, that the Sabbath is a shadow of things to come, meaning the crucifixion.

 

[TheThirdAngel144]

...

Your understanding of the 10 Commandments is flawed. They are irrevocable. It is true that the word "kill" is found within Exodus 20:1-17, however the word there is not the English word to kill, but rather, the Hebrew word to murder. It is premeditated murder that is forbidden, not the killing of others through judgement.

The same can be said for making a graven image. The context is not simply about a graven image being made (as we see the tabernacle had graven images), but also the bowing down to them, and the serving of them. Taken to it's extreme lengths, the verse also says, "thou shalt not serve". Might we conclude that it is evil to serve? No, rather it is evil to serve graven images.

The 10 Commandments do not lack establishment before Sinai. The book of Hebrews teaches us that what Moses made was simply a pattern of that which is found in heaven.

Hebrews 8:1-2 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Hebrews 9:1-2 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.

These claims that Moses made a pattern after the heavenly things are not without foundation. The Word of God shows that there is indeed a temple which is found in heaven. Within that temple is found the ark of the covenant.

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The sole original intent of the Ark was to carry the 10 Commandments. The Ark of the covenant/testament/testimony are all names given to the Ark because of its' purpose to carry the tables of the testimony (10 Commandments)

Exodus 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Exodus 31:18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 25:21-22 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. 22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

While it is true that the 10 Commandments can be summarized into two great commandments, this does not eradicate the necessity for the explicit outline. When you write a paper, you can summarize it's findings briefly. But that does not tell you how to arrive at the conclusion. How does one arrive at the conclusion, or rather, how does one arrive at the commandment to love God with all their heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love their neighbors as themselves? By following the explicit outline laid out in Exodus 20:1-17.

While the Sabbath is indeed part of the covenant made with Israel, this does not mean this covenant is not made with Christ's seed. If you are Christ's seed, then you are Abraham's seed. Each and every single commandment, without fail, is found repeated, and emphasized in the New Testament. This would indicate it's validity for Christians.

Romans 14 and Colossians 2 are not discarded as inspired Scripture. The interpretations placed upon them, to be regarding the 7th Day weekly Sabbath, is discarded. The context of both Romans 14 and Colossians 2 have nothing to do with the 7th Day Sabbath found in the 10 Commandments. People often make this mistake because words like "Sabbath" show up. However, there are different S/sabbaths, and it is up to us to pay attention to the voice of the Holy Spirit, and context clues to figure out the meaning of that which is written.

The 7th Day Sabbath was not truly profaned by the priests. It was in the sense wherein they worked on the 7th Day, but that can only apply to the extreme interpretations of the Scriptures. The commandment also says to keep the day holy. The labor that is forbidden is secular, not religious. Religious labor is free to go on on the Sabbath.

The commandments that God has given are found in the Word of God. To such, I will adhere.

 

[TheThirdAngel144]

What about the pro-abortion Seventh-day Adventist church? Are they a part of fallen Babylon or just a twin sister?

False dichotomy. By becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, she is indeed, Babylon. She is not the Mother of all harlots - no. She is a daughter to Mother Rome, and a sister to fallen Protestantism.

 

[bibleverse2]

She is not the Mother of all harlots - no. She is a daughter to Mother Rome, and a sister to fallen Protestantism.

Do you mean that the Mother of harlots (Revelation 17:5) is the RCC?

If so, note that while the corrupt aspects of the RCC (as of all other churches) are included in what Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" in Revelation chapters 17-18 represents, it represents much more than just the corrupt aspects of the RCC. For the RCC just by itself does not reign over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Nor is the RCC the only institution which buys merchandise (Revelation 18:11). Nor has the RCC killed all of the Christian martyrs who have ever been killed (Revelation 18:24). Nor has the RCC just by itself corrupted the entire world (Revelation 18:3). Nor has the RCC been continuously supported by the empires of fallen mankind throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10). Instead, Revelation's symbolic "Babylon" represents all of fallen mankind's corrupt political (Revelation 17:18), economic (Revelation 18:11), and religious (Revelation 18:24) systems throughout the earth (Revelation 18:3) and throughout history (Revelation 17:9-10).

The ten kings of the empire of the future Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will destroy with fire what Revelation's "Babylon" represents (Revelation 17:16-17) when they destroy the cities of the nations (Revelation 16:19), probably with nukes (and probably with Fission-Fusion-Fission, "FFF", or "666", nukes, "F" representing the number 6 in English gematria), at the time of the future, seventh vial (Revelation 16:17,19), which will be the final event (Revelation 16:17) of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 19:2 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31). The ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire could destroy the cities of the nations under the direction of Lucifer/Satan (Isaiah 14:17,12), who could want to leave only a literal "scorched earth" for Jesus to return to.

Near the very end of the future Tribulation, Lucifer (employing the ancient lies of Gnosticism) could say to the Antichrist and his ten kings something like: "Our great battle against the evil, tyrant god YHWH is about to begin [Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19], a battle which we will win, and so we will be able to escape YHWH's prison house, this material universe, and return to the wholly-spiritual Pleroma [i.e. Heaven]. So let us now destroy this prison cell, this foul planet, and let us, as it were, burn up all of the gewgaws which we have hung upon our cell walls. Let us burn up all of our great cities, all of our magnificent systems. Let us break all of our chains of attachment to this vile, physical realm, that we might more freely ascend back to our rightful place in the Pleroma [cf. Isaiah 14:13-14]".

Of course this will be a lie. For at His Second Coming, Jesus Christ (who is YHWH: John 10:30, Zechariah 14:3-4) will completely defeat all of the armies of the world, arrayed against YHWH (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19-21). And Jesus will have Lucifer bound in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:1-6, Isaiah 14:15), a time period commonly called the Millennium. During that time, Jesus will restore ruined parts of the earth and make them like the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 36:35, Isaiah 51:3). And after the Millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15), God will create a New Heaven and a New Earth (Revelation 21:1), as in a new atmosphere (first heaven) and surface for the earth. And then God will descend from the third heaven in the literal city of New Jerusalem to live with Christians on the New Earth (Revelation 21:2-4).

 

[bibleverse2]

To receive the mark of the beast means conforming to the servile mindset that willfully compromises with evil.

The "mark of the beast" (Revelation 13:16-17, Revelation 16:2) will be a literal, physical mark which will be visible to people so that they can easily tell in every situation whether or not someone should be permitted to buy or sell (Revelation 13:17). It will be visible also because the original Greek of Revelation 13:16 shows that the mark will be placed only "on" (epi: G1909), not inside, people's right hands or foreheads. Also, it will be placed on people probably by scarification. For in Revelation 13:16, one of the definitions of the original Greek word (charagma: G5480) translated as the "mark" is "a scratch or etching" (Strong's Greek Dictionary), and scarification is the scratching or etching (that is, the cutting) of the skin to leave a permanent mark. The reason that people will be given the mark in Revelation 13:16, in the context of what was shown previously in Revelation 13:4,8,15, will be to serve as a visible indicator to other people that they are loyal worshippers of Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9) and of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) and his image (Revelation 13:4,8,15), just as some Satanists today put a mark on themselves by scarification.

The mark will consist of only the Antichrist's name "or" some representation of the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17-18), meaning that the mark will be the Antichrist's name for some people and a representation of the gematrial number of his name for other people. And the mark will be placed only on the right hand (probably on the palm) "or" on the forehead (Revelation 13:16), meaning that it will be placed on the right hands of some people and on the foreheads of other people.

Those who refuse to receive the Antichrist's mark will not be allowed to buy or sell anything (Revelation 13:17). And they will be executed by being beheaded if they refuse to worship the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 13:15, Revelation 20:4). Christians must be willing to suffer this fate rather than agree to receive the Antichrist's mark or worship him or his image. For those people who agree to do these things, even if they are Christians, will suffer God's wrath in fire and brimstone forever (Revelation 14:9-13), while those Christians who refuse to do these things, even though they will be beheaded by the Antichrist, will be physically resurrected into immortality (along with the rest of the obedient Church of all times) at Jesus Christ's future, Second Coming (Revelation 20:4-6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-58), which will occur immediately after the future Tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). And even before their resurrection, at the moment of their death their still-conscious souls will be brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43,46).

In the future, when the world begins to worship the Antichrist as God (Revelation 13:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), some people could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their right palm, just as lovers in the past were sometimes known to have their loved ones' initials placed by scarification on their palms (compare also Isaiah 49:16, Jeremiah 48:37, Leviticus 19:28, and Leviticus 21:5). Other of the Antichrist's worshippers could gladly be willing to have his name placed by scarification on their foreheads, thinking (mistakenly) that they are fulfilling the Christian idea of Revelation 22:4, which refers to the future point in time when Jesus will put God's name visibly on the forehead of obedient Christians (Revelation 3:12). The Antichrist's miracle-working False Prophet, who will be the one who will cause everyone to be marked with the Antichrist's mark (Revelation 13:16-18), could even convince people that he (the False Prophet) is Jesus himself returned (via "reincarnation"). But he will not say that he is Christ. For he and the Antichrist will deny that Jesus is the Christ, and will deny that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 2:22; 2 John 1:7).

Instead of having the Antichrist's name engraved on their right hand or forehead, some of his worshippers will have the gematrial number of his name (666) (Revelation 13:17c-18) engraved on their right hand or forehead. But because some people could refuse to have "666" placed on their body, in order to make a mark of 666 acceptable to all people it could be disguised to look like something else in those cases where people demand something other than "666". For example, it could be disguised in some cases to look like "777", or "111", or "WWW", or "VVV", or "|| || ||", or "FFF". For the sixth letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet (Vav) represents the number 6, but it looks like a "7", or a "1", and it is transliterated into English as either a "W" or a "V". Also, two thin vertical lines "||" represent the number 6 on many UPC codes. And the letter "F" has a numerical value of 6 in English gematria.

In an awful coincidence (or maybe it is not just a coincidence), "FFF" also stands for an extremely powerful type of nuclear bomb: Fission-Fusion-Fission. Could this be the type of bomb which the ten kings of the future Antichrist's empire will employ to burn up the cities of the nations at the end of the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Revelation 17:12,16-17a, Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2,11)?

The "WWW" which has been placed on many internet addresses, and the "|| || ||" which has been placed across many UPC codes on products (that is, they have a "||" at the beginning, middle, and end of their UPC codes), are harbingers of when Satan will give the Antichrist ownership of everything on the earth (Revelation 13:2b; cf. Luke 4:7), and of the Antichrist's placing of his "brand" on everything, like how a rancher places his brand on all of his cattle. For both "WWW" and "|| || ||" are disguised representations of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name: 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). But Revelation 13:16 is not fulfilled by many internet addresses having a "WWW", nor by many products having "|| || ||" on their UPC codes. For Revelation 13:16 refers only to when people will be given the Antichrist's mark, on either their right hand or forehead.

Those assigned to have the mark placed on their forehead (instead of on their right hand) (Revelation 13:16) could be an elite, illumined, cognoscenti class of Gnostic Luciferians who alone will have been given knowledge of the ultimate secrets of the Antichrist's Gnostic Luciferianism, also called Satanism. The Antichrist will be both a Satanist, a worshipper of Satan the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), and a Gnostic, someone who denies that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3), and forbids marriage and the eating of meat (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The cream of his cognoscenti could be a faux 144,000, consisting of male virgins (as a counterfeit of Revelation 14:4) who have never eaten meat. If they receive on their forehead the mark of the Antichrist's name (instead of a representation of the number of his name) (Revelation 13:17), this will be as a counterfeit of YHWH's 144,000 in Revelation 14:1. But the Antichrist will not pretend that he is YHWH, just as he will not pretend that he is Christ. Instead, as a Gnostic, he will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And his Gnostic denial that Christ is in the flesh (1 John 4:3) will disqualify him (under his Gnostic doctrine) from being Christ.

 

[iamaberean]

The bible is all about God and his chosen people. What any other people were doing, was of no consequence to him.
Babylon, full of the children of Cain was the place that many of the children of Judah were taken captive around 500 BC. While there they intermarried with these people. That was indeed, considered by God, as being a whore.