ECT The Gospel of God's Grace

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You don't see how ignorant you sound. Jesus doesn't condemn people who obey him. You are ensnared.

I never said that the Lord Jesus condemns people who obey him. You not only sound ignorant but you are ignorant. I was showing that the Lord Jesus made it plain that those who believe will be saved but that truth is hidden from your eyes.
 

God's Truth

New member
I never said that the Lord Jesus condemns people who obey him. You not only sound ignorant but you are ignorant. I was showing that the Lord Jesus made it plain that those who believe will be saved but that truth is hidden from your eyes.

You sure did say it. You said that I am condemned for preaching believe and obey.

You just ignore the fact that Paul made it plain that when a person believes he is saved. And the Lord Jesus said this:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
(Jn.11:25-26).​

If you do not believe what He said there you will indeed experience the second death. And by then it will be too late.

You don't see how ignorant you sound. Jesus doesn't condemn people who obey him. You are ensnared.
 

God's Truth

New member
You just ignore the fact that Paul made it plain that when a person believes he is saved. And the Lord Jesus said this:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die"
(Jn.11:25-26).​

If you do not believe what He said there you will indeed experience the second death. And by then it will be too late.

I believe and obey Jesus so why would Jesus condemn me.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
You sure did say it. You said that I am condemned for preaching believe and obey.

You are condemned because you don't believe the gospel of grace which declares that a rightousness of God is given to all who believe.

You deny that believing is enough.

We are to obey the Lord but that obedience is not a requirement for salvation.

I believe and obey Jesus so why would Jesus condemn me.

Because you do not believe the gospel of grace.
 

God's Truth

New member
You are condemned because you don't believe the gospel of grace which declares that a rightousness of God is given to all who believe.

You deny that believing is enough.

We are to obey the Lord but that obedience is not a requirement for salvation.



Because you do not believe the gospel of grace.

I believe and obey Jesus and I preach for all to obey and believe Jesus.

Jesus does NOT condemn people for obeying him and he does not condemn people for preaching obedience.

You allowed yourself to be ensnared by the devil.

Noah was righteous and preached righteousness and was saved.

Abraham was righteous and obeyed everything that God told him to do.

David obeyed everything that God said, except for with Uriah, but then he teaches us a prayer of repentance.

Job was a righteous man who obeyed.

There are many who preached to obey God and who actually obeyed God.

God tells us all the time to obey Him, and to repent of your sins.

Jesus came to earth to tell people that.

You think that the whole Bible from part of Acts back to Genesis is wrong now according to Paul. No Way; what you are believing and teaching is from the pit of hell, IMHO.
 

God's Truth

New member
Because you do not believe the gospel of grace.

The gospel of grace is not, "No one has to obey God, just believe."

The gospel of grace is no more cleaning by doing the purification works just to go to the temple where God's Spirit was. Grace is that Jesus cleans us of our sins just by our believing his blood does that to the sins we repent of doing; and, we become the temple of His Spirit.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The gospel of grace is not, "No one has to obey God, just believe."

No one said that the gospel of grace teaches that no one has to obey God. But when we do look what it says then we can KNOW that a righteousness which is of God is given to them who believe:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

You don't believe that this righteousness comes to those who believe because you insist that believing alone is not enough. You do not believe that the believer is justified FREELY by the grace of God because you have not received the Spirit of God:

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"
(1 Cor.2:12).​
 

God's Truth

New member
No one said that the gospel of grace teaches that no one has to obey God.
You teach that, and so do many.

But when we do look what it says then we can KNOW that a righteousness which is of God is given to them who believe:

"But now apart from law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness is given through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus" (Ro.3:21-24).​

Those scriptures are about how no one has to get circumcised anymore and sacrifice animals.

You don't believe that this righteousness comes to those who believe because you insist that believing alone is not enough.

The scriptures say belief alone is dead and cannot save.

Paul never taught to believe and do nothing else.

Paul taught believe and obey Jesus; just as all the apostles taught, and Jesus Christ himself.

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.


You do not believe that the believer is justified FREELY by the grace of God because you have not received the Spirit of God:
You are wrong. I have the Spirit of God. I believed in God and Jesus since I was a very small child. Jesus didn't save me until I started obeying.


"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God"
(1 Cor.2:12).​

Now think if the Spirit of God would tell anyone that we no longer have to obey.

Who but the devil would be behind our not having to obey to get saved?

Jesus is the Way and he tells us what to do to get saved and to stay saved.

Paul didn't come around preaching against that.

Jesus is not divided.
 

God's Truth

New member
No one said that the gospel of grace teaches that no one has to obey God. But


JS, you DO preach that, and so do many.

You do start denying it as a defense.

Your "But" says it all.

I preach we have to believe and obey Jesus.

You go against me for that and say I am condemned for it.

You say that we only have to believe and not obey.

Now think again before you think you can now claim you don't say it.
 

God's Truth

New member
Read what Paul says to those in the church. He says that there are people who don't believe in God and THEY SIN. Then Paul talks about those IN THE CHURCH and explains to those BELIEVERS IN CHURCH that if they sin too, then they are storing up wrath from God.

Paul explains that they have to REPENT OF THEIR SINS.

He says that to those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil.

28Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
 

God's Truth

New member
Paul says the people in the desert with Moses fell because they did not obey.

Paul brings together the old and New Testament and keep the main truth in both, and it is that we have to believe and obey Jesus AS ALWAYS.

What God has brought together---you tear apart.

Paul speaks about how the people IN THE OLD TESTAMENT TIMES are the same as US---people NEEDING TO BELIEVE AND OBEY God.

Paul brings all people together through Jesus.

Paul brings together old and new, and Jew and Gentile through Jesus.

Paul brings together believe and obeying.

1 Corinthians 10 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6 Now these things occurred as examples(H) to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did.

11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear.(V) But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Hebrews 3:17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness?

Numbers 14:22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times--
 
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