ECT I Timothy 2:4

[oatmeal]

I Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

How do we come to the knowledge of the truth?


What does the second part of that verse say?

a. come to a knowledge of a truth

b. come to a knowledge of the gospels

c. come to a knowledge of the social gospel

d. come to know your theology or my theology

e. come to the knowledge of the truth

Evidently, there is such a thing as "the knowledge of the truth" that is greater than anyone's opinions and interpretations of scripture, II Peter 1:20, and is as perfect as God Himself is perfect.


What methodology do you implement to ensure that you being totally objective in your learning of scripture?

Take this verse, "Jesus wept"

What does it say?

a. Jesus wept

b. Jesus shed a tear

c. Jesus laughed so hard he started crying

Obviously, "a" is the correct answer.

Do we know why Jesus wept from that verse alone?

No, we do not, we will have to read the context of that verse to find that out if that information is given

Reading what is written is the first key

But included in that is the idea that we read to learn not to prove any preconceived notions we might have about what scripture is teaching.

Genesis 1:1 is as plain as day

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Read it and believe it.

What methods do you use to ensure you are being objective?

 

[oatmeal]

Surely, someone here has some kind of methodology to ensure they are being objective in their learning of scripture.

Well, maybe not.

Well, it would seem that I am expecting too much from this website.

That would explain why discussing scripture with some people here is so difficult and why they are so difficult to reason with.

 

[Danoh]

Surely, someone here has some kind of methodology to ensure they are being objective in their learning of scripture.

Well, maybe not.

Well, it would seem that I am expecting too much from this website.

That would explain why discussing scripture with some people here is so difficult and why they are so difficult to reason with.

Here is a methodology much like my own.

That is, if you have pen and paper towards MUCH note taking, along with an "ALL readiness of mind," and an ACTUAL willingness to go about "searching the Scriptures DAILY whether those things were so" that you might "THEREFORE...believe" (Acts 17:11,12) AND 90 minutes to invest in ABSOLUTELY rejoicing in MANY glorious truths touched on throughout! :thumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8.

 

[oatmeal]

Here is a methodology much like my own.

That is, if you have pen and paper towards MUCH note taking, along with an "ALL readiness of mind," and an ACTUAL willingness to go about "searching the Scriptures DAILY whether those things were so" that you might "THEREFORE...believe" (Acts 17:11,12) AND 90 minutes to invest in ABSOLUTELY rejoicing in MANY glorious truths touched on throughout! :thumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiD7C6KYCd4&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5: 6-8.

Thanks for the reply

I will watch a bit of it


I do not say that I will watch all of it

I watched about 15 minutes of it


It took 15 minutes to tell us to read the book

He supplied great scriptures that reinforce that.

For instance, that God communicates by words and that what is written in God's word, tells us God's will

And that God who is the Holy Spirit teaches us.

Well, that's good.

Without scripture, God is severely limited to what God can teach us. At that point, all He can teach us is from the mouths of believers who teach us to read.

Without our effort to read, God isn't going to be teaching us much of anything, for as the man points out the knowledge of God is communicated to us by the words in the word.


My OP tells us and much more in a lot fewer words.

Read, what does the verse say? what can we learn from the context?

Can you sum up what he teaches about how to read the scripture in order to learn what it says more accurately?

 

[Danoh]

Thanks for the reply

I will watch a bit of it


I do not say that I will watch all of it

I watched about 15 minutes of it


It took 15 minutes to tell us to read the book

He supplied great scriptures that reinforce that.

For instance, that God communicates by words and that what is written in God's word, tells us God's will

And that God who is the Holy Spirit teaches us.

Well, that's good.

Without scripture, God is severely limited to what God can teach us. At that point, all He can teach us is from the mouths of believers who teach us to read.

Without our effort to read, God isn't going to be teaching us much of anything, for as the man points out the knowledge of God is communicated to us by the words in the word.


My OP tells us and much more in a lot fewer words.

Read, what does the verse say? what can we learn from the context?

Can you sum up what he teaches about how to read the scripture in order to learn what it says more accurately?

I'm glad you brought that up.

The man does tend to veer off subject, here and there.

At the same time, what he mostly focused on during those first 15 or 20 minutes or so, was on preaching what we refer to as "the gospel of our salvation."

Which is more than merely saying that phrase. And more than merely knowing what it encompasses. It is preaching it - each time - and each time anew - "to the choir" also.

Especially each time, "to the choir" also...

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

He did express his belief that Bible study is for Believers, and that he was well aware that everyone in that audience probably knows the Lord, but that on the off chance that some did not, he would preach the gospel of our salvation to them.

Personally, I am glad he OFTEN does that in MOST of his studies.

He does tend to wander here and there (which can be maddening), but aside from that, his every study is ever much more than one study in one, throughout.

If you'll go back to those first 15 or 20 minutes, or so, with pen and paper in hand, and with the objective of making a note of just how many truths he touches on just in those first 15 or 20 minutes alone, even though his subject was how to study, you'll find yourself better appreciating the actually great depth of interdependent information he is actually sharing with that audience.

As in the Apostle Paul's sense of the following to his audience...

Ephesians 3:13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-11.

 

[oatmeal]

I'm glad you brought that up.

The man does tend to veer off subject, here and there.

At the same time, what he mostly focused on during those first 15 or 20 minutes or so, was on preaching what we refer to as "the gospel of our salvation."

Which is more than merely saying that phrase. And more than merely knowing what it encompasses. It is preaching it - each time - and each time anew - "to the choir" also.

Especially each time, "to the choir" also...

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

He did express his belief that Bible study is for Believers, and that he was well aware that everyone in that audience probably knows the Lord, but that on the off chance that some did not, he would preach the gospel of our salvation to them.

Personally, I am glad he OFTEN does that in MOST of his studies.

He does tend to wander here and there (which can be maddening), but aside from that, his every study is ever much more than one study in one, throughout.

If you'll go back to those first 15 or 20 minutes, or so, with pen and paper in hand, and with the objective of making a note of just how many truths he touches on just in those first 15 or 20 minutes alone, even though his subject was how to study, you'll find yourself better appreciating the actually great depth of interdependent information he is actually sharing with that audience.

As in the Apostle Paul's sense of the following to his audience...

Ephesians 3:13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-11.

His approach is valuable.

He makes it clear that we must read the word of God if we are going to learn.

I like that he makes it very clear that God's ways are not mysterious, if we take the time to read the words God gave to the holy men of God for our instruction and benefit.

He gives good reasons for us to read and learn.

Too often I find that some tend to emphasize that the Holy Spirit will teach us.

But that seems to be excuse for many to not read and delve into the scriptures with reason and meekness and humility.

God is always ready to teach, but we should be focusing on what we should be doing, God shall do his part, but are we doing our part?

 

[Danoh]

His approach is valuable.

He makes it clear that we must read the word of God if we are going to learn.

I like that he makes it very clear that God's ways are not mysterious, if we take the time to read the words God gave to the holy men of God for our instruction and benefit.

He gives good reasons for us to read and learn.

Too often I find that some tend to emphasize that the Holy Spirit will teach us.

But that seems to be excuse for many to not read and delve into the scriptures with reason and meekness and humility.

God is always ready to teach, but we should be focusing on what we should be doing, God shall do his part, but are we doing our part?

True.

At the same time, the point of sound study approach is the issue of being able to them properly identify whether the part we are doing is actually what our part is supposed to be.

Only then, is the following possible in a sound manner...

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

8:12 And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them.

Here is another study that is both shorter and much more to the point (being that is not so much to those within his circle, he tends to get right to the point much more often).

Keep a sharp eye out for what study principles he appears to have followed, beyond the ones he does mention, and you'll come away with that much more of a richness in your own approach.

At least that is what I have found, regardless of who it is I am reading and or listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

Just a manner of walking in those three study principles so obvious in Acts 17: 11, 12 :thumb:

Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[oatmeal]

True.

At the same time, the point of sound study approach is the issue of being able to them properly identify whether the part we are doing is actually what our part is supposed to be.

Only then, is the following possible in a sound manner...

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

8:12 And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them.

Here is another study that is both shorter and much more to the point (being that is not so much to those within his circle, he tends to get right to the point much more often).

Keep a sharp eye out for what study principles he appears to have followed, beyond the ones he does mention, and you'll come away with that much more of a richness in your own approach.

At least that is what I have found, regardless of who it is I am reading and or listening to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlBRmPEMcWI&app=desktop

Just a manner of walking in those three study principles so obvious in Acts 17: 11, 12 :thumb:

Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8.

When we have the opportunity to learn from the present day apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers we should do that.

In our personal study, we need to apply our reasoning power and find out what scripture is teaching by use of rational methodology.

If people would simply learn to read what is written, they would make great strides in learning what God wants us to learn.

Our attitude is vital

If we think that the Bible is just another good book or that it is just another collection of writings authored by men and edited by men to serve their own purposes we will never learn the greatness of what God wants us to learn

The Bible is the revealed word and will of God.

If a person wants to learn what God's will is for their life they must go to the words of life, the word of God to find out.

Philippians 2:115-16, Ephesians 3:4

God alone is the author of scripture

It was given to holy men of God to speak and to write down for our benefit. II Peter 1:21, II Timothy 3:16-17

 

[meshak]

Too often I find that some tend to emphasize that the Holy Spirit will teach us.

the HS will not be in us if we don't know what Jesus teaches or commands.

 

[oatmeal]

the HS will not be in us if we don't know what Jesus teaches or commands.

well it is in me and every Christian, that is everyone who did Romans 10:9-10

 

[Danoh]

When we have the opportunity to learn from the present day apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers we should do that.

In our personal study, we need to apply our reasoning power and find out what scripture is teaching by use of rational methodology.

If people would simply learn to read what is written, they would make great strides in learning what God wants us to learn.

Our attitude is vital

If we think that the Bible is just another good book or that it is just another collection of writings authored by men and edited by men to serve their own purposes we will never learn the greatness of what God wants us to learn

The Bible is the revealed word and will of God.

If a person wants to learn what God's will is for their life they must go to the words of life, the word of God to find out.

Philippians 2:115-16, Ephesians 3:4

God alone is the author of scripture

It was given to holy men of God to speak and to write down for our benefit. II Peter 1:21, II Timothy 3:16-17

Personally, I find that all too vague.

What you have posted is what every one does.

But each within their obviously examined and or unexamined approach...and both.

What is needed first is some way of determining if one's approach is actually sound.

Everyone practices what you posted there - but from within what they each think is sound, that may, or may actually not be.

And some way of determining if one's approach has actually been sound to begin with, is ever a never ending case by case basis.

As much as I harp on this, I myself continue to find that where my study approach had been the result of my having applied just the right first principles, Heb. 6:1 on one thing, I failed somewhat on some in some other.

At which point its back to the drawing board in an attempt to clearly identify for myself just what study principles I may have failed to follow, or that I may not have been aware of, that I might then also apply from then on, and so on.

At which point, only then is it back to square one...

Nehemiah 8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

At the same time though, there is ever its reward.

8:12 And all the people went their way to eat, and to drink, and to send portions, and to make great mirth, because they had understood the words that were declared unto them.

For this aspect of the Believer's responsibility and its resulting reward in the Lord by His Spirit in the inward man through His Word, ever boils down to the need to...

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

...if one is to...

2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Acts 17:11, 12.

 

[oatmeal]

I find it amusing that only one person has a methodology they use or at least uses once in a while or is aware of a methodology to learn more accurately what scripture says

How does anyone know they are not injecting their own theology or preconceived notions or emotions into scripture when they read it?

I used to think that "reading between the lines" was a viable method, but I was wrong it allows people to inject into scripture what is not there.

The first method is to simply read what is written.

Asking questions about what we just read helps us to read it again for greater understanding.

Genesis 1:1 who created the heavens and the earth?

God did

Matthew 12:40 how many days would Jesus be interred/buried? Three days and three nights, ie , 72 hours

Acts 2:4 What did the 12 do on the day of Pentecost? They spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.


John 3:16 God so loved the world that he did what? He gave. He did not "give and take" he gave.

Give and take? God's love does not take, it gives. If we are to love like God does, are we going to take or give? We are not going to take, we are going to give

 

[Danoh]

Whether aware, or unaware - all subscribe to a study method or approach of some sort.

Others deny they do, even as their posts continually prove otherwise.

But you are right.

Throughout history, only after the unwritten principles of a thing have been identified has man been able to go beyond the limits his prior ignorance of them have held him back from.

And Scripture is chockful of various study principles one is better off being consciously aware of, going into one's study.

Case in point - how Newton had been able to decode those basic laws or operating principles within the science of Physics he is now forever famous for...

What had allowed that?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Be it an an actually falling apple or what have you, that he had observed the fall of, whatever the actual physical object had been, its fall had allowed him to "see" those invisible things of God like gravity, force, mass, acceleration, and so forth, that Newton then merely made anyone desiring of knowing, forever consciously aware of.

I often think on that, whenever I see a plane fly by - "the invisible things of God...being understood..."

I mean, look at these three in one principle of study, implied in the following...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and..

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

I can still recall first seeing this one, way, way back when I first asked of the Scripture while reading those passages 'I wonder what principles of sound study they must have been applying back then?'

Which then resulted in my beginning to find those kinds of principles in APPROACH implied in those kinds of passages.

And I can still recall some old fool admonishing me to give this up - that what I needed to do was fast, anoint myself with oil, and seek God's will in prayer.

With my eyes pressed shut really hard, I'm sure....

Never mind that that is not what those two passages assert those noble Bereans did.

To this day, I ask people what their study approach is.

Most haven't a clue they are nevertheless following one, whether or not they are aware they are.

While every so often, I do get an answer that makes it worthwhile having asked my question.

And always, those aswers are in some passage or another said individual will then often share on the spot.

To passages like this one then - a hearty Amen!

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[oatmeal]

Whether aware, or unaware - all subscribe to a study method or approach of some sort.

Others deny they do, even as their posts continually prove otherwise.

But you are right.

Throughout history, only after the unwritten principles of a thing have been identified has man been able to go beyond the limits his prior ignorance of them have held him back from.

And Scripture is chockful of various study principles one is better off being consciously aware of, going into one's study.

Case in point - how Newton had been able to decode those basic laws or operating principles within the science of Physics he is now forever famous for...

What had allowed that?

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Be it an an actually falling apple or what have you, that he had observed the fall of, whatever the actual physical object had been, its fall had allowed him to "see" those invisible things of God like gravity, force, mass, acceleration, and so forth, that Newton then merely made anyone desiring of knowing, forever consciously aware of.

I often think on that, whenever I see a plane fly by - "the invisible things of God...being understood..."

I mean, look at these three in one principle of study, implied in the following...

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that...

1 - they received the word with all readiness of mind, and..

2 - searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. 17:12...

3 - Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

I can still recall first seeing this one, way, way back when I first asked of the Scripture while reading those passages 'I wonder what principles of sound study they must have been applying back then?'

Which then resulted in my beginning to find those kinds of principles in APPROACH implied in those kinds of passages.

And I can still recall some old fool admonishing me to give this up - that what I needed to do was fast, anoint myself with oil, and seek God's will in prayer.

With my eyes pressed shut really hard, I'm sure....

Never mind that that is not what those two passages assert those noble Bereans did.

To this day, I ask people what their study approach is.

Most haven't a clue they are nevertheless following one, whether or not they are aware they are.

While every so often, I do get an answer that makes it worthwhile having asked my question.

And always, those aswers are in some passage or another said individual will then often share on the spot.

To passages like this one then - a hearty Amen!

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Danoh,

Thank you for those added comments

The same God who provided, by His creative activity, gravity and other forces and physical principles that are invisible and can be described with mathematical precision is the same God who is the sole author of scripture

We can expect to find the same mathematical exactness and scientific precision that we use to describe God's creation of physical realities.

What God keeps separate in the physical world, should be kept separate by us in our thinking and living.

For instance, everything after its kind. Cattle breed and produce cattle only, they do not breed and produce a different kind of animal. Cattle reproduce and the result is more cattle.

Not being a biologist, I am not familiar with the categories like genus and species and whether or not their conclusions are accurate or not.

But it is clear, that no scientist would attempt to breed a cow with a stallion and expect any offspring.

Even so, we must keep separate what God has kept separate in His word.

Evil is evil and should be called evil.

Good is good and should be called good.

Body is body, soul is soul, and spirit is spirit.

I Thessalonians 5:23

Looking at Genesis 1, we see a variety of words God used to describe his actions.

created, said, divided, called, made.

These are words with different meanings

created means created, said means said, divided means divided, called means called, made means made.

They are not synonyms.

God perfectly authored His word, the written logos and every word in His written logos.

We should respect God and His written word that way.

Read what is written.

"What saith the scripture?" From Romans