ECT The Eucharist - John Chapter 6

[patrick jane]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

 

[patrick jane]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

I'm not considering returning to the Catholic church, however, I am focusing on the scriptures. The author of the link says he decided that scripture alone was not enough..

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 KJV - 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

1 Timothy 3:14-15 KJV - 14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[patrick jane]

I'm not considering returning to the Catholic church, however, I am focusing on the scriptures. The author of the link says he decided that scripture alone was not enough.

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 KJV - 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

1 Timothy 3:14-15 KJV - 14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

1 Corinthians 11:17-22 KJV - 17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1 Corinthians 11:26-34 KJV - 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
33 Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another.
34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.

 

[Tambora]

Partaking of bread and wine can be a good thing and also a bad thing, as in:

Proverbs 4:17 KJV
(17) For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.


There is no inherent magic in literal bread and wine itself, not even when a priest blesses it, as it can still be taken unworthily and thus no benefit to you.

 

[Tambora]

Deuteronomy 8:3 KJV
(3) And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.


This is the picture I get.
When you are dying of starvation, bread and wine will sustain your life.
We are dying because of sin, and the way to sustain your life is partaking the whole word GOD.
Christ is the bread that came down from heaven to nourish the life of those that partake.

 

[DAN P]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

Hi and since there are 3 verbs ALL in the Greek PRESENT TENSE this places Luke in the OT and has nothing to do with the B O C !!

dan p

 

[jsanford108]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

It was an interesting read. As far as the Eucharist being a "work," I would disagree.

I think that often, acts of obedience are labelled as "works." It really depends on the connotations that one associates with "works." For example, if you follow Christ's command to witness, is that a "work?" (I often classify "works" as "good acts" done in order to appease some cosmic balance, where as long as the good outweighs the bad, one is "safe" in regards to heaven; this tends to be the Pentecostal idea of salvation. The Catholic practices are not trying to "appease some cosmic balance," rather is simple obedience to Christ. It is an attempt at imitating the example of Christ.)

Christ told us to bear good fruits. James said that faith without works is dead. Throughout the New Testament, we Christians are called to follow commands of Christ. Is this obedience "work?" If witnessing is a work, then yes, active partaking of the Eucharist is a work.

Does this make sense? I often try to avoid interchanging terminology, and maintaining a consistent denotation with various words when discussing such things with non-Catholics (or anti-Catholics, as tends to be the case).

 

[Tambora]

I hope this does not turn into a bashing of the RCC, but sticks with the direct subject of what message the bread and wine of scripture represents.
There will probably be some, but I hope the focus doesn't take the thread in that direction.

 

[DAN P]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

Hi and Matt 26:19 is the PASSOVER that Israel kept !!

1cor 11:23-34 is ONLY for the B O C , PERIOD !!

There is no Greek word for word for the EUCHARIST as no Greek word for PURGATORY !!

Check and see as I did not see lone !!

dan p

 

[patrick jane]

Partaking of bread and wine can be a good thing and also a bad thing, as in:

Proverbs 4:17 KJV
(17) For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.


There is no inherent magic in literal bread and wine itself, not even when a priest blesses it, as it can still be taken unworthily and thus no benefit to you.

Paul says that about the bread and wine being taken unworthily but says they will be guilty. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.



Is communion not for the BOC? If not, why does Paul stress it heavily and also the church? Some of what Jesus preaches and teaches on earth ARE for the BOC as well, are they not?

I know that the Word was made flesh and the Word is Jesus Christ and the Word is God. When Jesus says "and the bread that I will give is my flesh" is he talking about absorbing and consuming the word of God?

John 6:51 KJV - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:53 KJV - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

 

[patrick jane]

I hope this does not turn into a bashing of the RCC, but sticks with the direct subject of what message the bread and wine of scripture represents.
There will probably be some, but I hope the focus doesn't take the thread in that direction.

I' will try my best to not let this turn into a RCC bashing. I want to focus on what Jesus says and what Paul and John say.

 

[patrick jane]

Hi and since there are 3 verbs ALL in the Greek PRESENT TENSE this places Luke in the OT and has nothing to do with the B O C !!

dan p

Then why does Paul stress it heavily? And just because Eucharist is a "Catholic" term takes nothing away from what is written by Jesus Christ, John and Paul etc.

 

[DAN P]

Paul says that about the bread and wine being taken unworthily but says they will be guilty. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.



Is communion not for the BOC? If not, why does Paul stress it heavily and also the church? Some of what Jesus preaches and teaches on earth ARE for the BOC as well, are they not?

I know that the Word was made flesh and the Word is Jesus Christ and the Word is God. When Jesus says "and the bread that I will give is my flesh" is he talking about absorbing and consuming the word of God?

John 6:51 KJV - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:53 KJV - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Hi and I said THAT Matt 26:19 is for Israel !!

1 Cor 11:25-34 is ONLY for the B O C !!

dan p

 

[Tehmill]

I'm not considering returning to the Catholic church, however, I am focusing on the scriptures. The author of the link says he decided that scripture alone was not enough..

1 Corinthians 11:23-26 KJV - 23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

1 Timothy 3:14-15 KJV - 14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The whole emphasis is upon BRAKING the bread, the one thing incidentally that Catholics do not do

He took the bread, He gave thanks and BRAKE it, guess what? there is no more body, we can only participate in His body, no-one can lift his fragment and say "here is the body of Christ" it is WE as the receiving assembly who now become [or who are] the body of Christ and individually members of it.

 

[DAN P]

I hope this does not turn into a bashing of the RCC, but sticks with the direct subject of what message the bread and wine of scripture represents.
There will probably be some, but I hope the focus doesn't take the thread in that direction.

Hi and if it does happen , PJ is the one who brought up the RCC Eucharist and the word sacrament !!

dan p

 

[patrick jane]

Hi and if it does happen , PJ is the one who brought up the RCC Eucharist and the word sacrament !!

dan p

Marriage is a sacrament too, I guess the Bible doesn't talk about marriage for the BOC either? This is not a Catholic thread, I brought up Catholic because the author said he turned Catholic, if I didn't mention it, the article still would have.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I came across an interesting study about the Eucharist by a former Presbyterian pastor who apparently became Catholic. Is the Eucharist considered a "work" by some people? After reading this, I'm not sure it is a work. I have said that it is symbolic and is only done "in remembrance." This was a good read for me, a little long but worth reading.

https://chnetwork.org/2015/12/10/un...-there-is-no-life-in-you-symbolic-or-literal/

One does not "do" anything in remberance but to remember Christ when you do.

Christ did not want it to become just another practice of religion.

One could ask why Paul had to correct them about their wrong practice of eating their meals at church as if that fulfilled the bread and wine event, if Paul had instituted the bicky and bread practice which he would have when he first taught them ,if it was so necessary.

Paul was instead instructing them to eat of His Word and drink of His spirit in a worthy manner by judging themselves and getting right with the Lord with help if necessary before sharing Gods word with one another.

Thus praying should be the first thing to do when gathering together instead of singing songs of worldly manner over and over until the preacher decides he can give his sermon.

LA

 

[patrick jane]

Hi and Matt 26:19 is the PASSOVER that Israel kept !!

1cor 11:23-34 is ONLY for the B O C , PERIOD !!

There is no Greek word for word for the EUCHARIST
dan p

Eu·cha·rist
late Middle English: from Old French eucariste, based on ecclesiastical Greek eukharistia ‘thanksgiving,’ from Greek eukharistos ‘grateful,’ from eu ‘well’ + kharizesthai ‘offer graciously’ (from kharis ‘grace’).

 

[DAN P]

Eu·cha·rist
late Middle English: from Old French eucariste, based on ecclesiastical Greek eukharistia ‘thanksgiving,’ from Greek eukharistos ‘grateful,’ from eu ‘well’ + kharizesthai ‘offer graciously’ (from kharis ‘grace’).

Hi and you do not have A GREEK word in the bible called EUCHARIST ??

dan p

 

[Tambora]

Paul says that about the bread and wine being taken unworthily but says they will be guilty. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.



Is communion not for the BOC? If not, why does Paul stress it heavily and also the church? Some of what Jesus preaches and teaches on earth ARE for the BOC as well, are they not?

I know that the Word was made flesh and the Word is Jesus Christ and the Word is God. When Jesus says "and the bread that I will give is my flesh" is he talking about absorbing and consuming the word of God?

John 6:51 KJV - I am the living bread which came down from heaven: If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:53 KJV - Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Some good points in there.

Christ is the flesh and blood to eat and drink.
He is the word of GOD, so yes, if you are eating Him you are consuming the word of GOD.
The word of GOD (Christ) is righteous and pure, and without it your're sunk.
It's His righteousness and obedience that saves, not yours. (Rom 5:18-19)

It is foreshadowed in the sacrifices of the law.
The people ate of the sacrifices reflecting the symbolism that only a sinless sacrifice can be substituted to die for their sinful selves. (They are not qualified to do the dying for their sin.)